German Shepherd Dog > Conformation Showing forum (54 replies)
Conformation Showing forum
by Ibrahim on 19 March 2012 - 17:24
|Do you notice that the activity there is very low? How come? The work forum is very active and lots to read and learn there !!!|
by bazza on 19 March 2012 - 18:08
|I think the answer to that is obvious, more working dog owners than show dog owners frequent the forums. Or could it be that mention working a showline always ends up being a bash fest.|
by GSD Admin on 19 March 2012 - 23:19
|I have actually been thinking about putting it all back togther but have held off but this thread gives me the chance to ask if you guys want them back together or some other combination of forums.|
by Slamdunc on 19 March 2012 - 23:39
|The sport / working forum is pretty dead also. I say you get Jeff over there to start some new topics. That is always good for hits.|
by Ibrahim on 20 March 2012 - 06:58
|I say it is still one breed, one standard regardless of the wide versatility, we better focus on uniting not splitting, put them back together, afterall we are one GSD family. If you allow me you need to make a revision/study of the outcome of decisions made in the last couple of years and re evaluate the good and the bad. I say the mods system was a plus allover but due to some decisions we lost few of the best members (best does not mean Gods or Prophets), Prager is an example, no matter how and where some may disagree with him, he is a wealth of knowledge we can benefit from. What is the harm of signing with one's kennel name/website or training center etc, afterall he/she represents a career/hobby and is entitled to let others know of it, it is a mutual benefit.|
We need to protect the newbies from needless attacks, that is good, we also need to protect our elders from attacks based on personal agendas, excuse me but I will use few names, people like Gustav, Slamdunc, Preston, yellowrose and the like should not be left alone when a reckless member misbehaves with them in a certain post and the end result they stop posting and we end up with unfinished post. This is a place for info, discussion, ideas and for people to share knowledge and experience, if we reach a point where there are no newbies and no elders then who will learn from who? I am using the word elder in the sense of experience not age.
If we reach a point where the elders walk away then who will share true experience with us?
I like hot topics but members should know better not to frighten newbies and the less knowledgable and not to embarrass them, it is ok for example if Jim goes hard on an equal trainer but not against someone like myself otherwise I will be afraid to post or ask for help again, I am not saying he did this to me, just an example. We need to get back at least some of the good members we lost.
I know it is complex but admins. should work a formula/with members help.
I notice most problems come up due to some claiming what they are not, some are searching for other's mistakes, some are degrading other's work and achievements, some think others are Gods and when they find out they are not then it is the end of the world and they loose faith, it is all exagerations we make ourselves, a breeder is a human being who can make mistakes just like anyone else and needs to make a living in the end of the day, not all humans are equal and not all breeders are equal and no one is pure.
by dogshome9 on 20 March 2012 - 07:41
One Breed, One Forum.
I agree it has been pretty boring around here these day.
by Mackenzie on 20 March 2012 - 07:51
I think that the title of this thread is perhaps inferring that it is for conformation/showline people only. Ibrahim goes on to say “
I say it is still one breed, one standard regardless of the wide versatility, we better focus on uniting not splitting, put them back together, after all we are one GSD family” which immediately brings in the working people from their preferred discipline.
The contributors on the database at this time are mainly from the USA and clearly the divisions there run very deep and, as we have seen, very personal. Although we experience similar problems in Europe I think that we approach them differently and in a more reasoned way.
The problems in the showline is that because of the way that the inbreed developed together with fake pedigrees has meant that the GSD that we see today has lost many of it’s best qualities. These problems cannot be put right overnight because they are now so deep rooted that it will take time. With the right trainers show dogs can work and achieve reasonable levels of competence albeit that it is below the level that the extreme working side find acceptable. There is evidence that the working side has foregone the breed standard in favour of working qualities and, again, the faults that they have produced anatomically will take generations to put right. Working dogs are not solely the domain of sport and Sch H.
I agree with much of what Ibrahim says, we are one breed and GSD family and, therefore, we must all work together to get back on track. The only way this can be achieved is by dialogue and unless there is the freedom to engage the breed will make very little progress. It is possible to have reasonable dialogue on here as I have proved in many of the posts that I have engaged in. It may be a little bumpy for a while and I think that the Moderaters are the people to remove the offenders who have no other interest than to bully their way through the subject that needs to be discussed here and elsewhere.
by GSD Admin on 20 March 2012 - 08:15
I hear what you are saying but I also think you don't know a lot of the stuff that has gone on behind the scenes. Members screaming liberty and free speech but in the background demanding that threads are deleted when things go wrong. People using 10s of user names to play games. I would like to think we are all adults but some of the utter non-sense that goes on here is beyond childish. People claiming to care about this site and Oli but all their actions have shown just the opposite of their words. I know for a fact that Oli has been personally hurt by what he thought were members who cared about him and his site only to find out they have spread very hurtful lies, nasty rumors and continue to undermine admins at all cost. He has given us a great resource and has truly tried to do the right things for this site. Again, I think plenty of members have let him down. Some of the old admins who Oli really liked but he felt let down by some of their actions. It is sad to see and hard to understand why adults act in these ways.
It is very hard to filter out the newbies who have agendas against older members. Do they want help or are they part of the problem.
We tried the hardcore approach and it chases members away, we tried the laid back approach and members just keep pushing the boundaries.
Burnout amongst admins is very high. Most get on this side and they want people banned and they want threads closed and they want to take action, only to realize that most members here cannot take a correction for inappropriate behavior. Some members when called out for bad behavior have then threatened admins with all kinds of threats including great bodily harm, lawsuits and my all time fav running to Oli to tell.
I am working on putting the forums back to
by GSD Admin on 20 March 2012 - 08:31
|One last thing--you bring up signature links--those have been taken away to help protect members. We allow members a breeders page to list their website and their accomplishments.|
Not sure if you have ever seen this but I posted it before. Go ahead and click the link. It will not take you to yahoo and could actually take you to a very bad site if I was a hacker.
We have been having a lot of problems with spammers--please if you see spam, do not click the link and report it to admin or click abuse and report.
by workingdogz on 20 March 2012 - 08:51
|It could just be that it's springtime and|
people are out doing stuff, like TRAINING
and prepping dogs for trial season, show
And for those who have a life outside of
dogs (hard to believe right?), planting,
prepping for planting etc. Cutting the
damn grass already, etc etc.
Once spring hits, you will find those
that have been 'trapped' inside by bad
weather to be staying out till the last
possible moment of daylight. It seems
to be a message board phenom that
hits virtually every board.
by beetree on 20 March 2012 - 11:16
|I agree with workingdogz. These things have cycles. I'd just let them be if I were you. Wait till the bigger shows come around later this year... I bet things become more active then.|
by Blitzen on 20 March 2012 - 12:34
I don't normally initiate threads and have got into the habit of not reading most of the forums other than this one and the all breed forum. Sometimes it just gets to be too much of a hassle for a GSL/ASL owner, to ignore all the meanspirited general comments about these dogs and the SL breeders and being belittled by people who they themselves have been caught here in multiple lies. Who needs it? In addition I have had at least one link to threads I have participated in copied to the FB account of a phony PDB member and used in a meanspirited manner intended to libel. I doubt I am the only member who has had that experience. Is that against Oli's TOS? I don't know, but if it is then I will registered a complaint with admin. Yeah, I'm taking it personally again, so shoot me.
by Ibrahim on 21 March 2012 - 18:53
|I understand what you're saying GSD and I still say that it is good to have people like Prager back with us, he's a good asset, if you can do something please do. This is not limited to Prager whom I'm using as an example only.|
Good post as usual, we need more of this good spirit here. We need to preserve it too and not let it wither away if you know what I'm talking about.
I'd love to see what others have to say on this if they care to
by GSD Admin on 21 March 2012 - 19:06
I don't think you need to direct this at me. I think you need to direct it to the people on your list who called the guy fat and harassed him. These are the reasons he is not here. Sure he was mad at not having his link but he had gotten over it.
Answer me this how do I keep respected members from attacking other respected members? Because my approach of dealing with the personal attacks was met with the same bullying non-sense coming after every thing I said.
I will say it again some people feel they can say and do anything because they have knowledge. Who cares that their approach to using that knowledge sucks at best and makes them look bad at worst.
by Ibrahim on 21 March 2012 - 19:12
|GSD, let us see what ideas and thoughts members will share on this, I don't claim I have a ready solution, I'm only expressing my wishes and maybe some fears.|
by beetree on 21 March 2012 - 19:15
|This is becoming a very interesting read. All these old dead horses being dug up. I'm a gonna love it.|
by beetree on 21 March 2012 - 19:35
|Seriously, though, aren't those forums open to all the breeds, too and not just GSD? So, theoretically as the other breed databases grow, so shall their forums, along with the mutual forums. Isn't that how it is supposed to work, eventually? |
So then, I would think it would be premature to put them back at this time.
by Slamdunc on 21 March 2012 - 21:44
|Some people have very short or completely selective memories. It can be very convenient at times.|
by Mackenzie on 21 March 2012 - 22:19
|I think that if showline breeders want to expand the gene pool then one of the first things to come to terms with is colour and accept that other colours than red and black are within the breed standard. This would also bring different breeding families to the table. This would be better than just following the leader and certainly would improve characters. The follow on for that point alone would move the breed to a more workable dog. Mackenzie|
by Von Savitch K9 on 21 March 2012 - 22:44
|The german shepherd dog was created to be a working dog period, I come from the belief that these showline breeders have done enough damage already that will take decades to repair if at all possiable. Shutzhund sport it's self has been diluted to accomodate these dogs already in my opinion. The dog is not truely tested under and kind of pressure it has become more about the trainer and bragging rights than the dog.|
Its getting more difficult ever day to get away from the showlines in working dog pedigrees. I would be happier if they all found another breed to show or separate them. These are my opinions