German Shepherd Dog > GSDCA-WDA BYLAW Change Proposal (189 replies)
by gck on 25 March 2012 - 01:31
This is wrong information. Both GSDCA and UScA are full WUSV members, and are therefore bound to recognize each others' members per WUSV rules. UScA members are welcome to participate in WDA events, with certain exceptions, sometimes with a fee surcharge, sometimes not. Overall, the WDA is the most welcoming of German style USA based organizations.
by openmind on 25 March 2012 - 03:23
|Way to go, Ms Besserwisser! Great post full of honest feelings and of the importance of integrity. In fact, I think Mr. P.O.O. and the Pips are now in full damage control mode as a result of the membership outrage over the 3 proposed by-law changes. According to a PM I received, it seems that in the spirit of harmony (remember that Kumbaya word?) and openness, "Our Leader" in his infinite wisdom has magnanimously decided to appoint Dan Hartman, who has been an outspoken opponent of the proposals from the get go, to be a ballot counter. Don't know if he will be added to the 3 originally announced or not. However, this is still a subterfuge to divert attention away from having made the members sign the envelopes, and, thus, allowing Board members to know how members voted. Also not known is what is going to become of the envelopes and ballots after the ballots are counted. Will Mr. P.O.O. find something in his Robert's Rules of Order that says the ballots and envelopes must be saved in case someone requests a recount, and in that case, who will take charge of said envelopes and ballots? Guesses, any one?|
While Ms Besserwisser's post was a wonderful one and right on target, the truth of it really saddened me when she wrote of how WDA members feared retribution and especially those in Region 7 and in Connecticut, and, therefore, how they would probably not vote at all rather than be identified as going against the wishes of the Board. That is a terrible indictment of those in power. Now, let's think about this. Which Board members or officers would be involved in Region 7 that would strike fear into the hearts of the members--why, I think that would be our own, "the members have spoken," newly elected President P.O.O. and one of his "Pips"--Treasurer Alethea Munsinger. And then who in Connecticut might instill fear of retribution--could that possibly be Director Henkel?
And speaking of Ms Munsinger, in the fascinating packet of unapproved minutes distributed by the highly regarded by the membership, but deposed by the Board, former elected-by-the-members Secretary Gayle Kirkwood, there was an interesting page which discussed the fact that there are currently no checks and balances in place to access the GSDCA-WDA database. Ms Munsinger, it seems has sole access to and control of it and why is that? There was also a statement proposing the authorization of an auditing firm and the suggested exclusion of a specifically named firm. While I don't know the story behind this, I have a feeling there is one, and hopefully someone will post and fill in the blanks for the rest of us. Then there was another statement that really caught my attention. It suggested a motion be made that the Board cause the submission of all corporate documents required by Federal and Colorado record-keeping statues and/or RONR, by all past and current officers, directors, and committee chairs to the WDA office with a proposed deadline date. There again I have no idea what that means, but it sounds as if there might be another substantive story there. Unfortunately these motions were never made at the NASS Membership Meeting because someone made a quick motion to end the meeting and that was quickly seconded and voted on, and, thus, no one was allowed any more time to speak! However, for a very interesting read, I again suggest you contact Ms. Kirkwood for a copy of her unsanitized minutes of the July Board meeting. Those minutes give real insight to the politics going on that involve the same people from 2011 and 2012. And, incidentally, it took the current Board until a February, 2012 phone conference to finally approve the July, 2011 minutes. Unbelievable!! Seems to me if someone doesn't want something he or she said during a Board meeting reported to the membership, then perhaps he or she should not have said it in the first place!
Since this Board seems to think a great deal of itself, I would like to propose an online evaluation of the performance of each of the Board members and officers. I am not suggesting nasty comments or over the top superlatives, but perhaps rather a rating scale with a scale of 1 to 10 along with the Name and Region or Office--with 1 being Poor and 10 being Excellent. That would give both the Board and the Membership a view as to how the Board and its actions are being perceived or received by the membership, since the Board is supposed to have the best interest of the membership in mind. I realize, as the Board has often reminded us, that they serve as volunteers, but I am also aware that there are some Regional Directors who do little or nothing to keep their members informed on Board activities or to support their members or their members' interests, and I am just as sure they know who they are. I just hope that the next time they are up for re-election, they decide not "to volunteer." Even better, maybe they should consider doing everyone a favor by resigning ahead of time. Along that same line of thought, do the by-laws provide for impeachment of officers and/or directors, and if so, under what circumstances? Does anyone know?
I would also like to suggest that someone or perhaps the Concerned Members of the WDA seriously look into the possibility of an injunction to halt the voting on the 3 proposed by-laws since it violates the rights of privacy of members to a secret ballot, or, at least, to look into the possibility of an injunction to halt the counting of the ballots or to have the ballots impounded until a legal opinion can be rendered.
Last, but not least, I encourage other members to step up and to post their opinions. This thread has been viewed by close to 2500 people, but has only about 40 posts. For those of you who do not normally post on the Chat Board, threads that do not have active posts keep going down on screen 1 and then they go onto screen 2, etc. and then basically cease to be seen. It is imperative that this thread be kept on screen 1. For those of you who fear posting because of reprisals or retribution, perhaps you can use a friend's pc and password so that you can remain anonymous. But, please, please, do cast your vote. Not voting means that "they" surely will win and the future of the WDA will be in question. We need everyone to be "heard" through the ballots, and we need everyone's "no" vote to win this critical battle. Then we next need to work on taking back the WDA from the political cadre now controlling it. JMHO
by gck on 25 March 2012 - 03:45
|The July 2011 minutes follow the precedent set for the July 2009 minutes. The July 2009 minutes, some 30 pages in length, were only submitted to the board AFTER the January 2010 board meeting, and finally approved at the April 2010 board meeting for dessemination to the membership. For those who remember, the July 2009 meeting was the one where the board agreed to sign away membership rights to privacy and publicity for their dogs as a prerequisite to enter NASS.|
In fairness, the final version of the July 2011 minutes is on hold, pending legal negotiations. Hopefully those will be concluded soon, so that the membership may have access to the board's actions for the last 9 months.
In the meantime, please give Openmind's comments full consideratio--and VOTE!
by sunshine on 25 March 2012 - 04:15
|Openmind: Have access to unlimited legal firms and will do some work in the coming days to see if a pro bono is possible from top attorneys. |
by sunshine on 25 March 2012 - 05:30
|In the interest of transparency an audit of processes is appropriate. I would love to audit the WDA secretariat!!! I offer my services. I am sure a few things could be pulled back into some order. I would love to see financials. I would have some ideas how to consolidate services and reduce costs. |
The lack of transparency into this organization is really irritating. How can one offer what has to offer if one has no isight? I saw huge costs in postage. OMG one of the biggest costs of the organization is Fedexing. Anyone thought of speaking with Fedex??? But those were unofficial financials. Anyone ever see any financials from this organization? What about tax returns? What gives this organization the validity as a non profit? Why does not the membership get any insight? What is the true membership list?
by Smiley on 25 March 2012 - 11:55
Here is what is listed on the current USA membership application:
"I represent that I am not a member of any competing German Shepherd Dog organization situated in the United States of America. I further understand and consent to the fact that my membership privileges shall be revoked with no refund, even on a pro-rata basis, should I at a later point in time, become a member of a competing German Shepherd Dog organization."
by judron55 on 26 March 2012 - 01:51
|Thank you Sara.......|
by hexe on 26 March 2012 - 02:42
|As I understand it, Smiley & judron55, if you're a member of *just* the GSDCA, USCA is obligated to accept your scorebooks and allow you to participate in their events per the WUSV's rules--because both are WUSV members and are required to honor other WUSV member organizations' scorebooks. Problem is, if are a GSDCA member and are denied entry in a USCA event, what are you really going to be able to do about it? You could complain to the WUSV, but I doubt it would generate much in the way of results, and by the time you could make the complaint, the event would be long past.|
For some reason, dogsport clubs and shenanigans of all sorts just seem to go hand-in-hand, and if there's more than one organization in a given area with the same focus of interest, there's sure to be pissin' matches all 'round...each one trying to outmaneuver the other, and invariably a financially-oriented scandal happening in one or more of 'em every few years.
by Smiley on 26 March 2012 - 11:42
Yeah, it is really stupid. I don't understand why the separation but I guess the political stuff happened before my time, so to speak. It is SOOOO frustrating. I guess we can show in some USA events but not as members. I have been told several things...all of which contradict each other!!
I have been told by the USA office themselves that I may not participate in ANY USA events as a GSDCA member. I have been told at another time that I *may* be able to participate in USA local conformation shows (not trials) but it is up to each individual show to decide if they want to let me in. Let's see...then I was also informed I need to come in through the backdoor , in regard to USA, and either have a DVG membership or..um...I forgot the other club they said. I guess if you have a scorebook with the DVG or this other organization that I forgot than they have to let you in at USA events....even if you are a GSDCA member.
Why is this so important if we have the WDA? Well, there are not that many active clubs or events with WDA and the USA clubs and events are everywhere.
I just want to be able to compete with my dog. *sigh*
But, I did just join the WDA (thanks forum members) and I'll just stick to WDA shows for now but I was told to make sure they are under SV judges or nobody else will accept the scorebook.
It is all so confusing for a new person like myself!!
by Dog1 on 26 March 2012 - 12:26
As a GSDCA or GSDCA-WDA member you cannot be a USA member. However as a GSDCA member you can participate in ALL USA events. The sieger show requires an additional fee. Doesn't make sense but lots of things don't make sense. You just have to accept them.
The waters are very muddy and the misinformation being spread makes it even more confusing. The members of the organization are not always on the same page too as you have discovered.
You would be amazed at the number of entries being lost at events because of how confusing it is to enter. I personally know of 22 dogs that tried to but were not able to enter the recent regional show in Statesville.
by Smiley on 26 March 2012 - 13:14
|Wow....that is so sad about the 22 dogs. :-( And, Yes....it is so confusing!! I understand that USA working people don't like the GSDCA but I don't understand why they don't like the WDA. I mean they seem like they have the exact same goals and everything. I am new to everything so I'll just roll with it even though I don't understand. Sara|
by judron55 on 26 March 2012 - 13:26
|Get a score book and trial....USCA has the most trials and that's one of the reasons I stay with them. I believe thier organization puts on a better trial. Look at the entries for the WDA championships and look at USCA or AWDF. No comparison. Why is that?|
by Dog1 on 26 March 2012 - 13:45
|Basically they don't want the competition. In 2003 the WDA was beginning to grow and a threat. USA drew a line in the sand and tried to force people to choose between USA and WDA as most GSD enthusiasts were members of both. USA basically said they would not recognize anything from the WDA. This was perceived by many as bullying and the WDA became more popular as a result. The WDA siezed the opportunity and expanded their services to include the SV services, 'a' stamp program, etc. offered by USA but at that time not offered by the WDA. The WDA took a very different position as they do now. They welcomed anyone that wanted to do anything with their dog.|
The WDA did ask the SV what they thought of USA not recognizing the results from their SV judges. The SV wrote USA a letter and basically told them if they didn't recognize results from SV judges they would be sanctioned and the SV would no longer send SV judges to USA events. USA tucked their tail and begrudgingly retreated but retained animosity and kept whatever they could legally to keep the wedge driven between the two such as the scorebook issue.
A few years ago the SV set an example by excluding RSV2000 members from becoming or retaining their SV membership. This gave justification and birth to the exclusionary amendment this country is now stuck with. It basically backfired in both countries. Substantial membership was lost and both had to look elsewhere to increase membership. Hence the SV inclusion of the coated dogs as damage control. USA followed suit.
This country is now faced with a set of rules that are so complex, no one, not even, yes remarkably not even those in charge are able to understand. I asked one sieger show question to the USA office, Sieger Show secretary, and National Breed Warden and got three different answers. They were able to conference and clear up the discrepancy immediately but it just demonstrated to me how complex and misunderstood the rules are.
Your confusion as you have posted is felt throughout the GSD community. You are not alone. The misinformation is spread throughout the GSD community as you have seen from the responses to this post.
by Smiley on 26 March 2012 - 14:28
|Dog1, thank you for sharing the history behind the feud. What a bummer......maybe things will change for the better!|
I figure, it's better to try to get involved and make a change than to retreat.
I don't understand the whole "scorebook" thing either so I guess I have to figure that one out soon.
I don't know if I need a scorebook for the WDA conformation show in June or for when I try for a BH. I don't know what scorebook to get after reading Judron's response. Nor, do I understand if everyone, at least, accepts everybody elses scorebooks and, if so, under what conditions. Argh!!!!
Whenever I think about this whole SV/ ScH thing and how I might participate my head just starts to hurt. So, I am not going to think about it anymore today!!
by judron55 on 26 March 2012 - 14:36
|I'm not having a problem competing or training....choose an organization and support it....I've been a member of both....I chose USCA when all the backbiting began...the SV is about cash as is the AKC.|
by judron55 on 26 March 2012 - 14:38
|you need a scorebook from USCA..AWDF scorebook and you can compete anywhere...I believe...|
by Dog1 on 26 March 2012 - 15:56
I don't swallow the concept where one must give up their rights and choose one orginazation over the other. The tide of popularity swings back and forth between these orginazations as we have seen over the years. Interestingly enough the popularity of each orginazation has been based not on their accomplishments but on the mistakes of the other orginazation. Look at the history time line.
Around 2003, USA was by far the largest and targeted the WDA in an effort to basically put it out of business. The plan did not go over and as a result the WDA grew out of USA's mistake.
A few years later the WDA President has the WDA on the verge of collapse. Lots of excuses about why things were not done, sieger show may be caceled. USA is looking good again as the WDA bickering and finger pointing drag on. The tide swings to USA through the mistakes of the WDA.
A few years later the exclusionary amendment comes along and USA looses popularity.
I'm for the success of the German German shepherd and support both organizations to the degree they allow and encourage others to do the same. Both orginazations represent and stand for the exact same thing, and need as much support as possible.
by judron55 on 26 March 2012 - 16:07
|what rights did you give up...come on....maybe if people weren't always trying to do what's popular...in the mean time I'll train and title my dogs and enjoy myself:-)|
by Dog1 on 26 March 2012 - 18:23
|With the new changes to the USA membership form you gave up two rights. One is the right to belong to another club. The other is the right to recover costs in excess of membership fees and other monies paid.|
by Bob McKown on 26 March 2012 - 18:45
Exactly what monies would I want to recover? I could never figure that out. No matter how you cut it USA offers many more availabilities to trial then WDA. No matter what the politcal climate is more trials are always available in USA. Both orginizations need to put the betterment of the membership ahead of the agenda.