German Shepherd Dog > Almost 2 years and no AKC Papers (84 replies)
by guddu on 03 March 2012 - 00:43
|It is ridiculous that you have had to wait 2 years. I would openly name the breeder. Everyone needs to know the risks when purchasing dogs from that breeder. Peer pressure is needed, to get the attention of this breeder.|
by DDRCzechFan on 03 March 2012 - 00:51
I haven't registered a dog for a while, so I'm not sure what AKC's current policies are; however, if you were ever looking into breeding/showing etc... you'd need full registration, and assuming the breeder did register that litter, in order to get full reg, I believe you need the three digit code in the little box for Full AKC Reg. on the application the breeder was OBLIGATED to give to you.
I went through something similar to your situation (not with a GSD, but a Golden Retriever a few years back) and the breeder, like yours, didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Like you, I contacted AKC and despite the BREEDER being the one in the wrong, they refused to honor full registration for my bitch. Man did it make me angry, a champion sired bitch, excellent conformation and hips prelim'd (not by OFA) Good to Excellent - I was so angry. But, I had a very nice, expensive Show quality pet. It was what it was, I spayed her, kept her and enjoyed her for what she was, a great dog.
BUT, it doesn't make it okay. Sadly, AKC was NOT looking to help the buyers a few years back, when I dealt with the situation, but I hope now-a-days they trust that not all breeders are as trustworthy as they could/should be and hopefully see this situation enough that they'll not only help you, but help you to your satisfaction.
You've already been burned by the breeder, it'd really 'suck' to find further damage from the AKC.
by aceofspades on 03 March 2012 - 01:01
|Yes. This is part of my issue. When I purchased her I paid to be able to breed her (if of course she turned out suitable for breeding, but I paid for that right none the less) I also had planned for my daughter to handle her in a CKC show when she was a pup but since we did not get her papers it never happened.....she wouldn't likely win any confirmation titles but the purpose was for my daughter to use her to learn handling.. Really my ability to do much of anything with her has been limited. My plan was to do Schutzhund with her and my understanding is that registration is not necessary??? Our local club has a mixed breed dog in it, but I don't know if there are any limitations on what events he can participate in because he isn't registered. My heart just gets heavier and heavier the more I try to sort this out. I wish I would have pursued this with a but more diligence. I know better for next time :0/ I may very well have a very high quality yard ornament (though we do love her very very much) And yeah.....both parents are KKl1 and hold Sch titles (1&3). I think there are only one or two untitled dogs (if that) in her pedigree that I could find.|
by DenWolf on 03 March 2012 - 02:16
|If the breeder has registered the LITTER, and has the registration applications IN HAND like they have told you...|
Then YOU can register your puppy ONLINE through AKC's website right away.
Email/phone them and ask them for the AKC LITTER NUMBER of your puppy, the PIN number (that is printed on the lower right half of the application), and the three digit code that is printed in the box to the left side of the PIN number.
Ask them to please send you the application by snail mail as well.
If you had the LITTER NUMBER, you could have at least entered your dog in AKC shows/events.
They should have at least emailed you that right after they received the paperwork from AKC...
An unregistered dog can be trialed.. but it shows up as "mixed breed" when you don't have registration papers.
by aceofspades on 03 March 2012 - 02:29
|Cool, thanks, I will email him and ask for the litter number. I'm learning a lot today. Thanks so much!!|
by Bhaugh on 03 March 2012 - 02:31
|I hate to sound like a bitch here, but it has been two years and if the breeder is ignoring you then your not likely going to be getting paperwork on your dog from him/her. This has happened to me ONCE and not twice because now I refuse to buy a dog without papers in hand.|
Other than giving him/her immunity, your not doing yourself any favors by not posting his/her name. Why protect someone who cheated you? If you still feel that you need to protect this person (however for the life of me I cant understand why) then go to the club where he trains and confront him. I'm guessing that for whatever reason he couldnt register one of the dogs to your pup and even though he "promised" papers he couldnt produce them so instead of doing the RIGHT THING, he chooses the wrong thing and is avoiding you. Or take him to court and ask the court to reimburse you for a registered dog since you wont be registering your dog through him. There is more than one way to make (what seems like because I dont know the entire story here) a breeder stand up and do the right thing.
by CMills on 03 March 2012 - 02:43
If I were you, and he claims he has "papers in hand" I'd ask the breeder to scan/forward the papers he supposedly has in hand, to show proof that he has the papers. There's NO reason they shouldn't be able to at least do that for you, and if they're telling you the truth they should have NO problems scanning/forwarding you the pups papers that they claim they have in hand! I'd want proof they have them.
by aceofspades on 03 March 2012 - 02:54
|Taking him to court is not an option, It would cost me more than I paid for the dog....at least ten times more. It is a ten hour drive to a different country (He is in the USA I am in Canada). I also have three small kids and a husband who works too much. It just isn't something I can do. Gas is expensive here, flights are out of this world expensive. I live in a small rural northern city.|
Yes, this will happen one time, not two. I know better now. If it doesn't work out then I have a pretty girl with a great pedigree and I have to be okay with that and chalk it up as a lesson learned. I don't love her any less because I don't have her papers. I am just disappointed that I won't be able to use her as I had intended. Such is life. I have to be okay with it.
I haven't shared the breeders name, however there is a fairly good paper trail. I haven't posted much here but I did post my girl's pedigree just after I picked her up in Aug 2010....many have had no problem finding the information.
As I also said, I am probably not entierly innocent as I have not been diligent in my pursiut of the breeder when I didn't recieve the paperwork. Aside from an unanswered email every few months (so probably about 7 emails over the course of the last 15 months) and a few unanswered phone calls, I haven't been persistent. For this reason I am not ready to name and shame. I believe in the good in people and just as I haven't been as persistent as I should have been, perhaps he has reasons as well (though I can't think of them off hand, especially since he has whelped two litters since mine). I tend to try to believe in the good in people. He is not a stranger to Sch or to breeding, so I would like to think he wouldn't want to ruin a good reputation by trying to scam the buyers of one of his litters.
Now that I have a bit of information on the dam and sire, someone was kind enough to find their AKC numbers for me, I do have a jumping off point. I came to find out where I could go from here, and I have recieved some great suggestions. I plan to give it a bit more time and hope that I learn that the litter IS registered (I am confident that it is, call me naive if you might, but I have no reason to believe it wouldn't have been) and then I will go from there. If there comes a time that I find out I will not be getting registration papers, then I will decide how to proceed with publicly naming the breeder. At this point I am not ready to do that.
And feel free to sound like a bitch :o) I have thick skin.
by Blitzen on 03 March 2012 - 03:00
I imagine the breeder already knows about this thread, so you may hear something soon.
by beetree on 03 March 2012 - 03:03
|Sound like a bitch? LOLOLOLOL Walk the walk, LOL|
by hexe on 03 March 2012 - 05:38
|One doesn't have to be Detective OJ Simpson (whose lengthy search for the 'real killer' of his ex-wife and her friend took him to golf courses around the US) to find out who the breeder of aceofspades' young bitch is...just click on her user name, and do some simple deductive reasoning with what results from that action. ;)|
by Blitzen on 03 March 2012 - 13:45
|There are plenty of workingline breeders on this board who probably know this breeder. As Hexe said, take 2 minutes to identify him and then ask him why he didn't give this guy the papers for his dog. Let us know what he says.|
by aceofspades on 03 March 2012 - 15:11
|Thanks everyone. Yes I am certain that he (breeder) is no stranger to some :0) This guy is a girl though ;0) just so we are clear on that one.|
by hexe on 03 March 2012 - 22:19
|Ah, I am so sorry for the gender assumption, aceofspades. Still have the provinicial-think of 'she' when a husband is referenced, and 'he' when a wife's mentioned; I have to kick my brain in the butt and update the files for "relationship associations" to reflect 2012. :)|
by aceofspades on 03 March 2012 - 22:30
|ha ha....no no, blitzen referred to me as a he (ask him why he didn't give this guy the papers for his dog)....I'm a she.....I mentioned I had a husband a few posts back, otherwise I'm not sure I've made any other refrence to my gender :o), so honest enough assumption. Without being sure I tend to automatically assume members here are more male than female.|
Breeder is a male....my reference "this guy is a girl" meant me, not the breeder. I see how that could be misinterpreted when I go back and read again
ETA: my username is more masculine than feminine, but it is just the name of my male.
by Bhaugh on 04 March 2012 - 03:29
|My comments did sound rather testy. Sorry for that. Did my research as recommended so wont ask anything further.|
Issues like this piss me off. Even though you may have a well bred dog that you love and will keep no matter what, the person didnt step up and do the right thing and supply you with the papers you paid for. Had you known this before it all started, you probably would have purchased elsewhere.
Your right Beetree I am a bitch. Ill be the first to admit it. At least people know where they stand with me.
by Blitzen on 04 March 2012 - 03:42
Bhaugh, you might be a bitch (like me) but you are the sort of person who speaks up for what's right; that's not a bad thing.
BTW I love rabbits and not as a meal.
by aceofspades on 04 March 2012 - 04:50
|Thanks guys (gals) this girl dog in question and the pup I got a month earlier than her (which i would never recommend doing, LOL) were my first two registered GSDs, though not near my first GSDs. I definitely didn't understand what regular protocol was for providing papers. I didn't get the papers with the earlier pup either, though they were provided within a couple/few months or so. I spoke at length with my sister in law today as well. She is fairly familiar with the CKC (though not as familiar with the AKC) as a former Bullmastiff breeder and handler (and now a Frenchie owner/handler and likely future Frenchie breeder) and she basically said what you all have said here. If I finally get her papers I think we might try Janna in a show ring this summer....we will see how quickly she picks things up. Who knows how she will do, but she is a SL/WL cross and my sister in law said not to be quick to discount her capabilities as she might surprise me. She was to be a Sch dog for me and a practice dog for my 8 year old for junior handling. So we will see where it all goes. And thanks for the last two of you who posted. I can handle the truth, whether it is what I want to hear or not. I prefer a straight shooter over someone who beats around the bush. My skin is pretty thick, I can disagree with someone or hear something I might not one to one day, and forget about it the next. So no sense in sugar coating things.|
by VIANDEN on 04 March 2012 - 05:41
|aceofspades I did a show/working cross to and she went best in show in her youth class and again in the adult class.She is now a|
INT/NAT Youth and Adult Champion.
She also has high drive and loves to work she will get her working titles this spring.
INT/NAT BIS Youth Champion Xonna vom haus Vianden
INT/NAT BIS Adult Champion Xonna vom haus Vianden
by aceofspades on 04 March 2012 - 05:56
|Oh that makes me happy. Thanks for sharing that :0)|