German Shepherd Dog > questions for those who have/had dogs with DM (34 replies)
by Nancy on 08 March 2012 - 12:55
|Update my dog, Grim van der woude tested "Carrier" and FWIW the U of M report that came *did* indicate some dogs with the "Carrier" test results have been diagnosed with DM. As is for him, we are still pursuing options - slight improvement - actually the only thing I really see now is that is foot tends to "drag" under him a little bit when he is making a sharp turn and he "catches" himself and does not almost fall anymore. Hocks more stable. he flips his foot..|
planning to see a holistic vet before subjecting him to more invasive diagnostic procedures.
Grim is WL, Czech -
by Blitzen on 08 March 2012 - 13:04
|Nancy, maybe you dog doesn't have DM?|
by Smiley on 08 March 2012 - 13:12
|Have any dogs with DM ever been tested Normal/normal through OFA? I ask as my bitch came back normal/normal (east german bloodlines) and now I am really worried that the test was somehow inaccurate?|
Or, is it appearing the double normals are clear and the carriers *might* develop DM along with the actives?
by Nancy on 08 March 2012 - 15:03
|I just reported the results - you don't really know if it is DM until the end....Just that the report from U of M indicated a possiblity with carrier designation.|
by desertstorm3115 on 08 March 2012 - 16:30
|Our baby was a carrier with OFA n/c & Affected with DDC a/a. We lost her at a young age, we put her down when the signs where there. I was not going to let my wife be selfish when we saw her toe dragging ect ect. We gave her a good week, let her do what she wanted and then put her down.|
This is all I am going to say about this, it is just to painful to watch back yard breeders not test their dogs then sell them at a high price not caring about the welfare of the dog or the feelings of others. I feel that any dog that tests for this, the breeder should be made aware of this problem.
If they continue to breed it shows you who their true character.
by Nancy on 08 March 2012 - 22:56
by Abby Normal on 08 March 2012 - 23:27
Can you be a little clearer about what the UofM actually said about some carrier dogs having been diagnosed with active DM?. It is just that there is some growing speculation around this and if you have a statement from them in your report it would be very helpful to know what it actually says.
As Blitzen says, it could be your dog does not have DM. I have never yet heard of a case of DM improving. I do hope that this is the case and it turns out your dog doesn't have DM.
There has been doubt cast by some about this test, but much of this is hearsay and speculation. What is lacking at the moment is the factual evidence to support it. I think it would be a great idea to contact the UofM and ask them your question directly. It would be very useful to be able to report that answer back to this thread, so that we can have factual information, from the horses mouth so to speak on this important issue. It may also help to set your mind at rest.
by Smiley on 09 March 2012 - 02:18
|Ok, Abby. I'll ask and let everyone know....|
by Nancy on 09 March 2012 - 02:43
|This is copy and paste from the report-it came directly from the University as the Vet clinic went through them and not OFA so I have to send the report to OFA which I will.|
What they have not done is provide an explanation how a carrier can get DM and a Normal cannot. I think what this is really saying is they have not encountered a Normal WITH DM yet. It would be good to understand by what mechanism they would speculate a carrier would be able to get the disease.
I am putting my own energy into looking into other sources of the problem, not a topic for this particular thread so I will not digress.
This is in reference to an acknowledgement that they have had a few carrier dogs wind up with DM-and the request for the statement in the report....actually you can go to the University of Missouri web page and they report the two "carriers" who were diagnosed with DM....so it is definitely out there.
Grim tested CARRIER
Brief explanation of results;
NORMAL dogs are not at risk for developing DM and can safely be bred to a dog with any test result.
CARRIER are far less likely to develop DM, but we have confirmed DM in a few carrier dogs. They may be used carefully in breeding programs to keep their good qualities while reducing risk of DM in future generations.
AFFECTED dogs are AT RISK for developing DM at some point in their lifetime. Not all AFFECTED/AT RISK dogs develop observable clinical symptoms. At present we do not a way to predict when clinical symptoms may appear. Additional research is underway to help determine these details.
Dogs testing NORMAL or CARRIER who exhibit symptoms suggestive of DM should have additional diagnostics done to determine the possible underlying cause of observed symptoms.
by Abby Normal on 09 March 2012 - 08:14
Thank you very much for that, it is very helpful. Good luck with Grim, and I hope it turns out to be something other than DM, that you can work with.
Sara, I look forward to hearing what the UofM say. I think Nancy probably has answered the question with her post above which is from her report from the UofM, but it does no harm to ask these questions, as things are always developing in the area of scientific discovery.
by Smiley on 09 March 2012 - 22:56
|Per OFA......"To my knowledge, no dogs have tested normal or carrier for DM and then developed the disease. However, there are other spinal cord/neurologic diseases that have the same symptoms."|
by Nancy on 10 March 2012 - 04:07
|Here is a link to the verbiage on the U of M webpage where they mention the two dogs with DM|
Sounds like OFA is not in synch with U of M on this one?
I know Marjorie has posted about it.
More questions than answers. I think people still need to test, gather the data on a large population and see if it holds up.........I am not judging the test one way or the other but it does raise questions which are not answered.
by Abby Normal on 10 March 2012 - 09:35
Agree with you 100%. A lot has been posted negatively about the test but so far there has been a lack of factual evidence relating to specific cases to support it. I hold a firm belief that people should still test, and it will provide data on a much larger population. In the meantime so far as I can tell, no dogs which have tested normal/normal have gone on to develop the disease, and so far 2 anomalies in carriers. If this is pure luck then it is pretty amazing luck. With the length of time the test has been available we are coming into that time frame when the test results are going to hold up or not.
I look forward to hearing Sara's answer from U of M, and I have also emailed them with a couple of different questions of my own.
by Vom Brunhaus on 10 March 2012 - 14:20
| Hi Blitz, long time no chat . Just a short on your subject matter.|
As you may or may not know the Vestibular Syndrome can produce some identical symptoms as DM. Had a Sch 3 that developed it at age 13.
regards, Mike - Vom Brunhaus
by desertstorm3115 on 10 March 2012 - 15:28
|I personally would like to know why more breeder's are not testing for DM (or hip ratings as well)?|
This has been a problem for many many years. If other's claim to be doing this for 10, 20 or 30 years should they not know better by now not to breed any dogs without hip ratings or DM testing on their stock? Am I correct?
We finally bought our new GSD puppy, from DM clear sire & dam, hip rating's & title's. We are very excited waiting for her arrival! If we only knew when we bought our first GSD pup. We never regret getting her and watching her slowly lose her battle with DM. The emotional toll it took on our family was beyond words.
With this, we now have no further need for PDB and wish everybody well, we want to thank everybody that taught us all about breeding, buying, selling, training and of course all the drama that comes with different opinion.
With all said & done no matter what happens, in the long run it is the dog's that suffer. We as humane beings need to take more responsibility for the safety & well being of these beautiful and majestic creatures of God.