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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Breeding age and standards (32 replies)
Breeding age and standards by sleghtebruute on 21 February 2012 - 16:27 |
| I work for a county zoning dept. which has numerous commercial breeding operations. Our staff is looking for input to set a standard for breeding in our county. I'm looking for input from breeders and your standards for minimum age and maximum age of breeding females and males. Also input as to sizes of kennels and occupancy. Note: most of the breeders in our county are breeding smaller toy breeds. I can be emailed privately at rweiss@elkhartcounty.com or in open forum. Thanks in advance for your input. |
by SitasMom on 21 February 2012 - 18:05 |
| a city close to where I live just adopted an new ordinance - if the animals are well cared for and healthy then there are no limits - this is logical........... |
by BMartin on 21 February 2012 - 19:01 |
| I don't agree SitasMom (respectfully, not trying to argue with you)... An animal can be in good health, treated well, and all that good stuff but still shouldnt be bred as soon as they come into their first heat cycle. That being said, I think this is more of a ethical issue than a legal one. I don't see it as the counties business to regulate the mating of animals. Are they going around to the farmers and making sure the sheep and cattle arent bred before they are fully mature? Time for Elkhart County to take a backseat to common sense IMO. Here in America, people should be free to make their own decisions with their property. As hard as it is to swallow for a lot of us, but animals are property... Before the peanut gallery starts in on me, I am COMPLETELY opposed to breeding animals without health clearances and a clear vision of the purpose of the breeding. |
by darylehret on 21 February 2012 - 19:02 |
| Is MORE government really necessary? I could think of a lot more IMPORTANT animal related issues you could string someone by the balls for. What would you do anyway, fine them to cover your policing costs? If an animal is sexually mature enough to reproduce, then it's because nature intended so. If you NEED something to do with taxpayer money, mail an iformation packet to each of the breeders that educates the benefits or cautions against the risks of waiting/not waiting until full skeletal growth is formed or mental maturity attained, and put whatever slant on it that suits your political agenda. And back your conclusions with more respectable sources than a public forum. |
darylehret by Blitzen on 21 February 2012 - 19:33 |
| Uh, I'd be careful with what I say in this thread. Big brother....PeTA, the HSUS. You get it. There is plenty of internet info regarding the recommended way to keep and breed toy dogs, all dogs. AKC offers guideline, so do breed clubs.Why ask that here? |
Blitzen by EuroShepherd on 21 February 2012 - 20:32 |
| "Big Brother" needs to hear our opinions. People who have no involvement in the breeding, training or showing of animals have no business micromanaging them. As for PeTA and HSUS, they need to both be put down. Only organizations who are genuinely concerned about balancing the lives of domestic animals with the livelihoods of humans are sane enough to take seriously. It is not in the best interests of government and the public people for government to regulate the breeding ages of animals. How on earth could that be regulated? How do government officials who are usually not true experts try to ascertain the age of an animal? Just rely on the paperwork of the owner? really? American governments (fed/state/county/city) doesn't tell a 15 yr old girl or a 50 yr old woman if she is allowed or not allowed to get pregnant. American governments do try to protect people from physical abuse and extreme neglect. So should it be the same way for animals. If the animal is provided for in adequate food, clean water and clean living space and is not being violently physically abused (beaten, burned, etc) then government has no further involvement with that animal (unless it's vicious and unrestrained) There are already so many federal and state laws to protect animals from abuse. If Elkhart county is concerned about the breeders in it's county then it needs to enforce the laws already in place (but very rarely enforced) and not make more laws that will be just more un-enforceable. Look to the USDA regulations of their licensed dog breeding operations, adopt the same regulations for your entire county (but don't be making changes to it that will have consequences you never realized) and enforce them. Here in Ohio they're trying to make laws on dog ownership, including requiring that all dogs must be wearing tags at all time, even in their own house or kennel. That is a death sentence for dogs. So many dogs have been severely injured or killed because they wore collars and tags. law makers have not been able to understand that just the smallest, seemingly inconsequential law can have incredibly horrible outcomes. Tell the County zoning department to try not to shoot itself in the foot and shoot it's constituents in the heart. If the animals are adequately provided for then that is all the board needs to know. I could go on and on... next to real dog abuse, and scammers/thieves/killers, nothing aggravates me more than worthless government regulation. |
EuroShepherd by Blitzen on 21 February 2012 - 20:55 |
 EuroShepherd. |
by BlackthornGSD on 21 February 2012 - 22:28 |
| What's the county going to do in the case of an accidental breeding of a too young or too old dog, male or female? I don't want to see a larger breed female pregnant before 18 months, but if there is an accidental pregnancy before then, the best option is often for her to have the puppies. If it's a smaller breed dog, they do mature earlier and 2 year OFAs may not be necessary in all of the smaller breeds. |
BlackthornGSD by Nadeem6 on 21 February 2012 - 22:55 |
| He stated "commercial breeding operations" and toy breeds. I am sure they are not doing OFA's and i am guessing it is for puppy mill operations. Hopefully someone can give him some answers. The government is involved with them whether one agrees or not. |
Nadeem6 by isachev on 22 February 2012 - 03:03 |
| Here's some helpful links. Not sure this is exactly what your looking for. You probably already know the first link. Hope this helps. Take Care Pete http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusinst15_21_1_1.htm http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/laws-that-protect-dogs.aspx http://www.pijac.org/_documents/tn_breeder_reg.pdf |
isachev by OGBS on 22 February 2012 - 06:45 |
| EuroShepherd, Before you make a comment like this, "People who have no involvement in the breeding, training or showing of animals have no business micromanaging them. ", you may want to know that the person asking the question is a long-time national level competitor in Schutzhund, a long-time national level helper, a training director for two clubs where he has helped others train and title too many dogs to count, and has bred a few litters. I think that the question was asked and the county in question is looking at some sort of standard because they see that there is a problem and would like to somehow rectify the situation. The county in question is loaded with Amish and Mennonites. Some of the worst puppy millers in the U.S. fall under the categories Amish and Mennonites. Why is it that setting standards means passing unenforceable laws? Maybe it means providing some clueless people some guidelines that they will hopefully follow? And in turn, maybe some dogs in that county will be treated better than they presently are! How do you figure sitting by idly is the way to go? Personally, I think that it is good to have "dog people" involved in solving these issues. It's a lot better than leaving it to people like HSUS, PETA, etc.!!! When you draw a line in the sand that is what you are left with! RW, Good luck with your quest! Don't let the negative BS on here get to you. Hopefully some competent people/breeders with knowledge and experience will chime in with some helpful information like some have already. See you at the WDC in April. |
OGBS by Jenni78 on 22 February 2012 - 13:50 |
| OGBS, why would you read that post and think she was talking about Ronnie??? That was clearly reflective of her thoughts on government regulating where they don't belong, not Ronnie personally, I thought. |
Jenni78 by Blitzen on 22 February 2012 - 13:59 |
| Well maybe if the OP had identified himself as an a Sch competitor, etc he may have recived a better reception here. I'm not quite sure what is expected from a group of dog breeders many of whom have been unfairly trageted by local dog law officers and humane societies or who know others who have been. Why act as if if EuroShepherds is a bad person for she posted here? OGBS, honestly if you didn't know the OP how would you have responded? Tell me about the Amish dog breeders. I lived in York County, PA, the next county to the west of Lancaster. Contact the Pa Federation of Dog Clubs to find out how they dealt with and still deal with Amish breeders who pack hundreds of dogs into barns to make money they aren't ever suppoed to want. The Federation has a website with contact information. I feel sure they would be very happy to help. |
by Blitzen on 22 February 2012 - 14:11 |
| http://pafederationofdogclubs.org/ |
by Blitzen on 22 February 2012 - 14:17 |
| http://pafederationofdogclubs.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53:chb-recommendations&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50 |
by darylehret on 22 February 2012 - 14:24 |
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by sleghtebruute on 22 February 2012 - 14:25 |
I'll clear the negative air quickly in pointing out that the county is not looking to micro manage breeding operations. Our county covers 500 square miles and has 40 known commercial breeders (puppy mills), yes most of them Amish, and is 90% agricultural. We recently had a gentleman apply for a Permit to operate a commercial breeding operation, requesting 105 breeding age dogs, the board members were blind sided as to what the breeding age of females and males is. If the Board members granted a permit the applicant could have 150+ dogs on-site and state that 105 were breeding age. Note our county governs the commercial breeding operations as a land use business the same as it would if it were a saw mill. The county ordinance views the impact the businesses will have on neighboring properties and roads for traffic. |
by Blitzen on 22 February 2012 - 14:42 |
| Daryl, I have to assume you have never lived near an Amish dog breeding community. |
by BMartin on 22 February 2012 - 14:42 |
| bowing out, no need to get into this one... |
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