German Shepherd Dog > If the Capt. was alive today (254 replies)
by vomeisenhaus on 28 February 2012 - 21:08
|Cphudson...the lack of common sesnse I see on this site amazes me lmao.|
by Gusmanda on 28 February 2012 - 21:39
|it's funny, as soon as Gustav mentioned liking this thread not becoming violent, that's exactly what happened.|
Thanks, gharsha. Do you know if that book is still available?
Hey Blitzen, yes, it is available on amazon and dogwise. Very interesting read.
by Blitzen on 28 February 2012 - 22:07
by Blitzen on 28 February 2012 - 22:26
I guess we can all agree that most of the Capt's breeding mandates would not fly today. Culling litters, keeping no more than 2 brood bitches, etc. nothing most I know would ever do.
by Gustav on 28 February 2012 - 22:40
|Then the Capt. would be happy and all these examples are good examples of the breed just in the wrong place......Like the ones lacking courage are making good alert dogs, and the ones with extreme physical features are good movie star dogs, and the ones with the tail always waggoning with something in their mouth are great circus dogs. Please people.....Look we got a lot of good info out of the thread, but I think we have exhausted this thread. JMO|
by gharsha on 28 February 2012 - 23:38
|Thanks again Gustav. |
The conclusion then is: If the Capt. was alive today, it would matter as much now as it did when the Nazi's took control of most of Eroupe in the 30's - zero.
by Rass on 29 February 2012 - 00:52
|I have two dogs right now that the Captain would not approve of... not really. |
Doesn't mean I am going to breed them (not going to). It also does not mean I don't love them and give them the best care. Does not mean they do not work (they do). Obedience, Tracking and so forth. Good dogs but not good BREEDING dogs as they lack all the components of GSD drives and temperament (nerve and courage).
I HAD a dog the Captain WOULD have approved of.. she was all you could ever ask for though a bit over size. She had the "right stuff" in every way.. and courage, nerver, hunt and fight drives and totally obedient. She was wonderful. She was born in 1992.. lived to be nearly 14.
I did not breed her either.. and she is one that should have been bred!
The dogs we OWN may not be dogs that should be BRED. The dogs we OWN may not be the best examples of the breed. Doesn't mean we don't like the dogs we OWN.
by vomeisenhaus on 29 February 2012 - 04:29
|I think a lot of people here would do well to consult with people who hunt big game with hounds that are required to cold trail, run, bay , fight & tree wild game such as bear, mt. Lion, bobcat and more commonly small game raccoon. Many on here will totally disagree with what they do as there chosen sport but so be it. I was involved in it for many years. How many people here believe there are hounds who can strike game from a vehicle moving 60mph down the road? It is not only possible but "COMMON PRACTICE" althouth the ideal speed is around35mph.. one of their main tests is if the dog will still hunt like this in freezing or close to temperatures. Has anyone here "MAINLY IN THE NORTHERN STATES evere seen a truck with a dog box with portholes in it so the dogs can stick there head out? Those dog boxes are called "RIG DOG BOXES" and the dogs with there head sticking out are actually hunting from right there in the dog dog box (they don't call them crates)as they will "WIND THE SCENT" of there quarry from right there and start barking "INTENSELY" when they "WIND" the desired game that has crossed the road previously. The people who do this seriously are "UNCOMPROMISING" in the dogs they keep. It is pretty simple really. They are VERY SELCTIVE. Most of everything I learned doing this carried over to gsd & working dogs. It is the same thing in .any ways. One of the old timers told me 2 quotes that I will never forget. #1. It cost just as much to feed a dog that satisfies you as it does one that don't. #2. Dogs always get better when they are dead & gone... lmao. To gustav.... this was a very good thread with good intentions but not very realistic. Because of time & change because the new nazi regime would be peta & greenpeace. We all know how most feel about "CULLING" as they did in their time. Kurt|
by Mackenzie on 29 February 2012 - 12:36
When will people learn that not all dogs are suitable for breeding? Also, not all dogs are suitable for work in the owners preference for work e.g. Sch h. So much, for a working dog, depends on the trainers skills and, many cast offs for Schh may be competent in another discipline. Owners must have an open mind as to which discipline is best suited for their dog. No dog is born with the skills that are demanded of them any more than our children are born to be brain surgeons.
What does a title establish? Simple. It establishes that the dog has learning power and then it is for the trainers to nurture the best attributes of the animal to enable the dog to reach higher levels. It also establishes that for one day only it is competent to pass the test in whatever discipline it is entered. That is not when the training stops. It is a continual process throughout the dogs working life. When a dog fails then look at yourselves first, that could easily be the reason.
Not all dogs will perform consistently at the top level but a pass in any test means that at whatever score the dog is competent.
by Blitzen on 29 February 2012 - 13:14
Mackenzie, IMO the Capt would like that post.
by Rik on 29 February 2012 - 13:28
|just some thoughts:|
some people shortcut the system. this is obvious to anyone with any bit of exposure or experience and does not make the system invalid for the many who do it the right way. someone saying titles/proofing is without benefit because some cheat is no different than those who say h/e certification is of no benefit because some choose to cheat.
why would anyone waste time as apologist for a "line". It is all on display at the shows/trials and now you tube in many instances. a dog is good or not, a "line" produces many examples of good or not. they are on public display.
many people offer strong opinions on what is a good GSD when their experience has never drifted far from their own yard and only talk what a GSD should be.
if I show up in public with a dog that is an embarrassment to me or to the breed with poor example of character, it is not Walter Martins fault, especially if I am 3 or 4 generations into a breeding program. I have made my own choices and to blame those choices on someone else would just show my weak character. how could I expect the dog to be different.
by vomtreuenhaus on 29 February 2012 - 13:41
by johan77 on 29 February 2012 - 14:19
|It´s a bit ironic people are so concernd about extreme preydriv e in todays SCH-dogs and breeding to famous dogs, yet there are namedropping about WUSV-dogs and titled SCH-dogs , don´t see how these dogs are so much different than other dogs doing SCH, how could you be sure these dogs are better producers and better themself outside their SCH-comptetitions? I don´t have the experience that mostly topplacing SCH-dogs are being use in breedings, some very much used studs have not done much at all as far as competition goes, maybe it´s different depending where you live.|
As far as titling goes it´s what you make of it, if someone wants to breed foremost for looks they will do that as long as the breedingrequirement isn´t so hard to pass that only very good dog can make it. A breeder that is serious about breeding working GSD will choose his dogs depending on his goal and not if the dog has passed some minimum breedingrequirements. In germany a SCH-title is a must, which may keep out some dogs working in other areas to be used for breeding I suppose, like a PSD for example. In other places there is none at all, like US. If I look here in sweden there is no SCH-requirements as in gemany, but on the other hand you can use dogs that are certified PSDs or securitydogs, which all also must go thru a selectiontest which I think tells you more about a dog than just a SCH-title. If you also can see the dog in training this is much more telling than just knowing a certain dog has passed a SCH-title. I also know some breeders won´t use a mediocre dog regardless what titles it has.
What the captain said or not about titles many years ago is not so intressting, of course there are today other people that know what a good GSD is, and also other ways to test this than the methods they decided as breedingrequirements in germany a long tme ago.
by Gustav on 29 February 2012 - 14:25
|Fortunately, there are still people that are breeding the right dogs for the right reasons. JMO....It remains important that people bring to the forefront of today, the type of dogs that created this great legacy. Sure we have divergent interests that have taken over the breed....but as long as some of the breed is being used for work there is the need to breed for the balance utilitarian dog. In order for this to continue, then some of the oldtimers have to reemphasize the basic tenets of breeding and where the priorities should be. Thing die out from a lack of knowledge...I was always told.|
Example: When in the service in early seventies at Army War Dog school, we had over 250 dogs at detachment, in many different vocations, (sentry, patrol, narcotics, scout, trackers,body recovery, mine and tunnel,etc).....when you are there 40 plus hours a week over 3 years you get to know all the dogs generally. There were no OVER the top prey monsters like you see today often in sport. Sure there were dogs with good prey, but that over the top prey that is so unbalanced that it crowds out other drives.....nope! Actually, no where in my travels did I see dogs with THIS kinda prey drive in those days. Just like you din't see only Black and red show dogs in those days. My point is that many people today think these are what is supposed to be and alway was. And from their point of reference this may well be....BUT this is a creation of sport/show purposes. But people with the KNOWLEDGE of the abilities of the balanced type, and the knowledge of how to maintain balance thus keeping this breed employed, are still out there; though declining as time goes on. It is imperative that they discuss and strive to educate folks who are open and willing to learn about the breed as a balanced dog, created to work and worthy of work. That is why threads like this are important. I KNOW the show/sport world is going to march to the ribbon/money drumbeat. I know they are not interested in moving from the allure of these gains....but these kinda of threads are not really beneficial to them because they know everything(within their world...lol) anyway. But there are many people out there thirsting for knowledge of breeding dogs to be the way the "Book" says the German Shepherd should be....and for them, some of us continue to speak to.JMO
by Blitzen on 29 February 2012 - 14:39
"But there are many people out there thirsting for knowledge of breeding dogs to be the way the "Book" says the German Shepherd should be....and for them, some of us continue to speak to.JMO ""
Thank you, Gustav.