German Shepherd Dog > If the Capt. was alive today (254 replies)
If the Capt. was alive today
by Gustav on 17 February 2012 - 16:15
|And placed back at the head of SV and elected to make changes; in the direction of the breed, to correct what he saw that was faulty,(Remember he on a number of occaisions had to put up entirely different dogs genetically and typewise to bring the breed back to center), what do you think would happen????? Just curious. Would it be well received? Or would the same thing that happened to Raiser occur.|
by darylehret on 17 February 2012 - 17:01
|This is my impression. I think Raiser has done a better job of sticking to his principles and not giving in. What we've come to know as the "german shepherd dog" has been around a long time before Stephanitz's time, for centuries. Basically, Max was a leader, an organizer and promoter of something that was already in existence. He didn't "create" the breed, he gave it recognition. Then he let the grasp of his idea slip away (even during his life), by not manning up to the politics involved. But Helmut has "fight drive", to have put an organization in place, and let those that will come. Even if his vision doesn't fit with the majority or have the financial backing that the titan SV holds on the breed, that's OK. What sets you apart from the rest needn't be acceptable to everyone.|
by gsdterrier on 17 February 2012 - 17:07
|If the Capt. were alive he'd probably get sick when he saw American show line GSDs with their sloped backs....I know I do.|
by Gustav on 17 February 2012 - 17:15
|Not interested in ASL, more wanting to understand if a MAJOR shift in direction is needed for the good of the breed, would the Head of SV be able to do this....I used the Capt., but could have used Dr. Funk or Christopher Rommel.|
by Abby Normal on 17 February 2012 - 17:32
|Yes a major shift is needed, I'm sure there isn't a sane person alive that doesn't know it. The difference between now and then is the vast sums of money involved and all that goes with it.|
No-one would be allowed to kill or even clip the wings of that golden goose. Whoever it was would go the same way as Raiser IMO.
by Q Man on 17 February 2012 - 18:14
|Helmut Raiser has taken the next step...That the SV wouldn't do...Too much political crap to make the changes for the breed that are needed...|
I was at the meeting of the RSV2000 with Helmut Raiser last April...Raiser has invested a lot of time and money into making the correct changes to make the German Shepherd the Working Dog that is Was meant to be...
I think Capt Max would be happy to see the effort being made to keep the German Shepherd what it was meant to be and not some Sloped Back dog with almost no Drive for the work...
by Ibrahim on 17 February 2012 - 18:21
|What Daryl said is very interesting. As the good genes are there in all types of GSD, I imagine he would select a VA from the work type that enjoys correct structure, sound temperament and balanced drives and then encourage breeders to introduce work type into their breeding programs. He would use the media to promote this turn and it can work as every other thing works via media nowadays.|
by kitkat3478 on 17 February 2012 - 19:28
| I myself think he would say,"OK, now let's all get back on the same playing field and start|
'RE-PRODUCING' some of the dogs from our past"(I say the 70's and 80's).
One breed of German Shepherd,different distinct lines, ONE breed.
What was wrong with dogs like those sable show lines like Agent Arlett, that was a show line, but could also compete at the National Working dog trials.
The Arminius and Weinerau dogs were very influential back in the day in creating todays working line dogs.
Working line people say What can a showline add to the improvement of the working dog? Hell, I was surprised at how many of these top, HARD working line dogs, and their breeders(kennels)have used and have,Quanto Arminius, Zamp Von der Wienerau,dixie, Quando, etc., etc.,to make the dogs they have today.
Dogs that I would never have expected to find a Weinerau or Arminius in, have them as some of their foundation dogs.
Czech dogs like these owned by the Czechoslovakian Army's Pohranicni Straze ,most have Zamp V Weinerau, dogs made for REAL work, Frankie Anrebi, Troll v Haus Milinda,
Working line Bomber V Wolfsheim has Zamb in there, and that's just to mention a few.
Those that love the German Shepherd need to work togeather to bring the breed as one true working dog.
With what we know today about genetics, and the testing that is being done everyday, the Breed of German Shepherd can be made whole! ONE Beautiful Working Dog!!!!
by Koach on 17 February 2012 - 20:21
|Registry recognition in Canada and the USA of RSV2000 registered dogs would be a step in the right direction encouraging us North Americans to purchase pups from the people who care about the GSD, the RSV2000, that is. We have to help Helmut who is trying real hard to turn things around. I doubt very much that we can turn the SV around at this point.|
Gustav – I’m sure you also do miss the days when the same dog could get a V rating and win the top working trials as Enno and Drigon did. Those same dogs could also produce dogs for LE. What the SV has done is a real crime.
by darylehret on 17 February 2012 - 20:28
|Only if they take out the trash first. But, that would be like throwing away money, because every genetic wreck is worth at least twice as much as a healthy dog that can REALLY perform. No, I'm pretty sure Helmut has the right idea, by starting from the ground up, and letting the past be past.|
by ronin on 17 February 2012 - 20:59
|It makes perfect sense what everyone is saying, but talk is cheap, who's a member of the RSV 2000 then?|
I'm thinking of joining after reading the above posts, I've been inspired!
by vomtreuenhaus on 17 February 2012 - 21:07
|IMO...SV showlines are not NEARLY as "gone" as AKC showlines...|
At least the SV showlines can be made/conditioned to work (you know and get that small club trial Sch title) AKC showlines can't even function physically enough to do that..let alone mentally..
Honestly, AKC is the criminal here.... AKC is where the change needs to happen first as most american's watch those silly westminster/eukanuba shows on saturday morning animal planet...thats where you have to go to change the mind of the majority.
by kitkat3478 on 17 February 2012 - 21:33
|Believe it or not,most Americans that watch them shows on Saturday morning,DO NOT want that kind of German Shepherd.They want a German Shepherd. Most average pet buyers have no clue about different lines,BUT that is what your average pet buyer can afford! (honestly, how many pet buyers can afford 1500-2500 hundred dollars fork a well bred dog?)|
by darylehret on 17 February 2012 - 21:52
If you join, then you'll be exluded from any SV sanctioned events. That's the kind of fear biting result the RSV2000 has promted from the SV. IMO, the best message you can send is a drop in SV membership.
by Gustav on 17 February 2012 - 21:59
|Ibrahim.....I always admire your insight into things.|
Koach....not just miss those dogs, but feel cheated that this type is excluded from show and sport because of leadership.
by Gusmanda on 17 February 2012 - 22:33
|I asked at a local GSD forum about RSV2000, next thing you know my post got deleted, no warning nor explanation.|
I do know some local trainers will be participating in RSV cup/FCI instead of WUSV/FCI, since they are only a week apart (adds more value to the trip, Mexico-Europe round trips are expensive, + crappy exchange rates for Mexican currency).
And I agree with Ronin, actions need to speak, no use in just whining about the downfall of the breed and not doing anything about it.
Fight the power!!!
by Gustav on 18 February 2012 - 01:19
|You know it seems to me that the behavoir of not allowing someone to belong to multiple competing organizations and deleting posts about others, etc, seems to reflect the type of dog that the organiztion is also moving away from. The calm, strong, I don't need to feel threatened by others, extremely self-confident, temperament is not as prevalent in the organizations or the dogs that are extensions of them.|
by Rik on 18 February 2012 - 03:01
|Gustav, we can only make opinions based on the writings he left. I would like to think that he would trample on the one color only s/l, kick the prey drive monsters to the curb and explain that sch. test was meant as proof that a GSD has the traits that qualify it to be a breed worthy GSD, not a sport to itself.|
But who can say what anyone would do with a GSD in one hand and a quarter million in the other hand.
What is your opinion.
by Felloffher on 18 February 2012 - 03:40
|If the Capt was alive to see the current state of the GSD he would be pissed and I'm pretty sure he'd be bitch slapping mofo's.|
by Gustav on 18 February 2012 - 04:02
|Rik, I think he would attempt to do all the things you listed.....but I think the money lenders would run him out of the Temple!!!|