German Shepherd Dog > Nikki is sick ... diarrhea .. any suggestions would be appreciated ... (32 replies)
by kitkat3478 on 18 February 2012 - 18:58
|I would think the metro was prescribed for coccidia. Isn't panacur used for worms and giardia?|
by NIKKI04 on 19 February 2012 - 03:41
by Dog1 on 19 February 2012 - 13:55
Here's why you need a new vet. It's been a couple days and you are still no closer to resolving your problem now than when you started. You've been worried about her, caring for her, giving her things to mask the symptoms but you're really not any closer to solving the problem than you were when you started and you're probably a couple hundred dollars into the process and nothing really has been done.
Myself and a few others have suggested to do what is commonly done when this occurs. The treatment is less than the cost to diagnose and once you have rid Nikki of the posibilities of the obvious,,,,if a problem still exists, you may really have a problem that needs to be addressed.
Don't worry about the diet, don't worry about blood tests, just give her simple medication to rid her of the most common problem and see if it fixes her. If it doesn't, you have at least eliminated the two common ailments that produce diareah and Nikki is at least rid of any bad bacteria or parasites.
As you and others pointed out it's difficult to detect giardia or cocciddia. So don't waste the money, just treat for it. This should have been the first thing your vet perscribed. He sounds like a great guy, pretty cool, level thinker. Great, go out on a date with him but find someone that has enough experience to fix your problem.
Safeguard (Panacur) for goats from Tractor supply, 1cc per 5 lbs. for 7 days and albon from your vet will knock what ever she may have that's causing it out of her system. It's much more effective and milder than Metronidazole. If anything persists afterwards, you have at least eliminated two of the most common problems and you can move on to the next step knowing you have eliminated two.
by 1GSD1 on 19 February 2012 - 14:09
|So sorry this is still going on. Obviously not from her eating chicken. At first it was she threw up so you cooked for her, she ate the chicken, not part of her diet orginally and then had diarrhea. Agree with Dog1.|
by NIKKI04 on 20 February 2012 - 05:12
You did not read my posts ... she threw up one time almost one week prior to the diarrhea starting which was this past Thursday and the very next morning I called the vet to tell him that diarrhea started and he told us to come by and get the medication .. so yes ... that was the first thing he prescribed .. right after our "date" ... and he has 30yrs. in ... Albon has the same nasty side effects .. and yes ... I did start giving her the medication to fix the problem .
by Jenni78 on 20 February 2012 - 13:28
|It could be anything; let's start with what's most common. IMO, that would be giardia. Longterm giardia can have all these effects, and if a dog is otherwise healthy and strong, it can take a long time to show up and when it does, it can seem pretty serious. If they suspect a bacterial infection (which they always will when you feed raw and not Science Experiment), they will prescribe metronidazole, because in a few days or less, the dog will likely appear "cured." But it's not; it comes back. Almost every time.|
My choice would be to cover the bacterial base with something safer if that's a big concern (bacteria) and use fenbendazole at the giardia dosage. Fenbendazole is the safest chemical I know of for this kind of thing. I have used it on very young Chihuahua puppies; it is that safe. If you've read many of my posts, you know I am not into chemicals!!! She could have whipworms, hookworms, giardia, could've eaten something bad outside, gotten some e.coli from ANYWHERE (not just raw food!), etc. Fecals are nowhere near 100% accurate. Fenbendazole, in it's cheapest form (bottles of Safeguard labeled for goats, $17 at a tractor supply, farm store, etc.) will at least eliminate the vast majority of the usual suspects. I agree with Bhaugh; metro is good for a quick boost, like with parvo or something, but it masks more than it actually cures. I hate that it's become a crutch in the veterinary world.
I had a pup I sold with tarry stools (months later-not when I shipped her, obviously) that wouldn't quit. That's blood. Vet was so stuck on metro. and the fact that they fed her raw chicken was causing it, I asked them after a month to just trust that I had the pup's best interest at heart and stop listening to the vet. I had them put her on fenbendazole for 10 days, high dosage (not the dosage on the goat bottle- that is too low for a dog) and stop the metro. that she had been on for a MONTH and still had tarry diarrhea and vomiting, as well as significant weight loss by this time. Lo and behold, she's fine. And still eats chicken.
by Keith Grossman on 20 February 2012 - 13:40
|I've keep Metronidazole around and have used it for years as a first line of defense for diarrhea in a variety of dogs and puppies and have good success within only a couple of days with zero adverse effects.|
by Keith Grossman on 20 February 2012 - 13:46
|"It could be anything; let's start with what's most common. IMO, that would be giardia."|
Correct and if the dog you describe didn't respond to metro after a month, it's a safe bet that giardia wasn't the issue as I typically see a marked improvement in 24 to 36 hours but don't recall ever having seen giardia cause tarry stools. That it eventually resolved on fenbendazole could simply be anecdotal.
by Jenni78 on 20 February 2012 - 14:18
|I use metro, too. But not for a month if it isn't working;-)|
Keith, I should have specified; I think there was more going on with that dog. The diarrhea started before the metro; it progressed into tar. I even think she may have eaten something to cause bleeding, hence the digested blood. There was a theory that the long course of metro contributed to a bleeding ulcer. We will never know; she is fine today and it all cleared up steadily. I think a domino effect had occurred by that time and we were no longer dealing with just the first diarrhea trigger, which is what I think the fenbendazole helped. This dog was a big swimmer, hence my decision to treat giardia first and maybe her system would be strong enough then to fight off or heal whatever else was going on.
by Keith Grossman on 20 February 2012 - 16:32
|Yikes! Lots going on with that pup; glad to hear she's better now...hope it lasts.|
Yeah, a month on metro is extreme...like I said, it's always had an almost immediate effect when I've used it...but it was probably actual giardia I was deling with. Now for what I didn't say...it may very well be that my experience is anecdotal as well. ;o)
by Jenni78 on 20 February 2012 - 18:40
|Could be both our experiences are anecdotal;-)|
But yeah, you know right away if metro is doing the trick or not. To keep at it for a month, to no avail, while the dog develops tarry stools and loses weight as opposed to straight diarrhea...I have to question that judgment!
by Keith Grossman on 20 February 2012 - 19:04
|Maybe we should add the standard disclaimers to our posts from now on...limit one per customer, void where prohibited by law, your mileage may vary, etc.|
by Jenni78 on 20 February 2012 - 22:31
|Why bother? Some idiot would sue us anyway.|