German Shepherd Dog > Thoughts on co-owning a dog (45 replies)
Thoughts on co-owning a dog
by EchoEcho on 08 February 2012 - 21:39
|I am considering co-owning a puppy with a breeder that I consider to be very knowledgable, trustworthy, and honest. I am wanting to show/title this dog and then breed her (as long as she is breed worthy). He would have all naming rights and rights to the puppies minus a 3rd and 4th pick puppy. I see this as a way to "get my feet wet" into breeding and to learn under someone with a lot of experience and knowledge. I was hoping to get your thoughts on this and things that I need to consider.|
by VKGSDs on 08 February 2012 - 21:42
|So, you show and title the dog, arrange the breeding, but someone else gets the two top pick puppies? What's in the co-ownership for you?|
Personally I don't do them, but I've seen it work out OK. I have "personal space" issues though, I train, show, work, and trial all my own dogs and don't ever send them away for anything, so if I'm putting in all my time, effort, money, and heart the dogs belong to me and me only. I don't ever want to feel roped in or have to jump through hoops or not be able to make all the decisions about my dogs.
by melba on 08 February 2012 - 21:49
|NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!|
I am co-owning a dog right now and it is HELL!!!! If for whatever reason there is a falling out between you and that person,
you will lose big time. It happens ALL the time.
You will not find many pro co-own comments here.
A better option would be to buy the dog outright and ask them to mentor you. Or ask them to mentor you and in a year, when
you have learned much more, then buy the dog of your dreams.
by etosha on 08 February 2012 - 22:08
| Can you say NIGHTMARE????? All I can say is be prepared to enter HELL. I have never seen this work out and have heard a lot of stories similar to mine.|
My advice is buy the dog outright or find a breeder who will sell outright if this one will not.
by EchoEcho on 08 February 2012 - 22:43
|Okay so you are both saying that it is hell but why? Can you go into specifics? Melba and Etosha please tell me what your experience has been.|
by Blitzen on 08 February 2012 - 22:50
|I have a dfferent take on co-ownerships since I have had 3, 4 excellent ones, no bad ones. If the person you want to co-own with has the type of dog you like and if that person has an overall great reputation in the breed, then I would consider it. I don't feel as if 3rd and 4th puppy back is unreasonable, but I would want to be clear about who pays to title the dog - handlers fees, entry fees. Have you been asked to pay any money up front?|
Here are a few more things you may not have thought about - who pays the stud fee and related expenses and who chooses the stud dog. What if there are only 4 puppies (or less) or some die or all are pet quality. Repeat the breeding, use a different dog? What happens if the dog gets very ill and requires expensive vet care? A c-section. Who pays....are the bills evenly split. What happens if you can no longer keep the dog? If the dog has HD or UAP or some other genetic issue that would prevent her form being bred, then what? After the dog is titled and the puppy part satisfied, will you be getting full ownership of the dog or will the co-ownership continue into infinity?
All but one of my co-ownerships have been with people who I knew very, very well, for many years.
If you decide to go with a co-ownership, get it all in writing so there are no misunderstandings. Ask other breeders if they know this guy and their impression of him.
Again the most important thing is to know the person you are considering for a co-ownership.
by NorthwindsGS on 09 February 2012 - 00:21
|We co owned a American show line bicth a few years ago. We had right to pick of litter from first litter and then following litters split. After paying show titling fees, vet fees and other expensives it would have been much cheaper/easier to have done it all on our own. We didn't agree on the stud dog or on age pups left mom and so on. If you do decide on a co ownership make sure to have everything in writing. Including who pays vet bills and who makes decisions on vet care.|
by EchoEcho on 09 February 2012 - 00:29
|Thanks Blitzen and Northwinds. I am going to be talking with him this weekend and wanted to ask the tough questions at this time since we don't have any agreement right now. I do know that he is well respected among his peers and seems to be a wealth of knowledge when it comes to anything GSD and breeding related. I haven't ever heard him speak poorly of any other breeders and I have met a couple of people who have co-owned dogs with him and they seem very happy with the arrangement. He has several co-owned female dogs.|
He has a foster option to which I didn't like because my name isn't on the registration paperwork which made me a little nervous and that is why the co-ownership seems the way to go.
He said that he pays all show titling fees as well as stud fees and expenses and genetic screening related to breeding (need to make sure that includes whelping in the case of a c-section).
by workingdogz on 09 February 2012 - 00:37
The problem with getting it all in writing is
at the end of the day, litigation is expensive!
And you will never be able to forsee every
'what if' situation. It might suit you both better
for the breeder to give you the puppy with a
separate co-own contract specifying litters etc.
AKC won't interfere with any co-own either,
you can be stuck in paperwork hell if you
sign on as a co-owner.
by Blitzen on 09 February 2012 - 00:49
I think a written agreement serves as reminder to both parties on what has been agreed upon verbally. Legally it's probably not going to mean much.
by Blitzen on 09 February 2012 - 00:52
|I guess I've been lucky with co-ownerships, but they've worked out very well for everyone concerned.|
by workingdogz on 09 February 2012 - 01:04
|It is a rare situation for one to|
indeed be lucky Blitzen, but it
does indeed happen. Just so much
to consider, what are timeline
expectations for titling/koering etc?
So many 'what if's', it's usually just
better to go ahead and own the
dog outright and have some
sort of a supplemental agreement.
by Slamdunc on 09 February 2012 - 01:23
Be very careful. If this person has other co owned females, I would check with those people and see if they are happy. If this person is a member of this forum you may want to be careful, if it is whom I think it might be. Don't get caught up in too much hype. There is really no reason to co own a puppy, IMO. You will do all the work and they will reap the benefits. If this was an adult dog that you couldn't afford to buy and loved the dog then maybe. But puppies are a crap shoot and for the price of a puppy just buy it and own it. Most breeders will want to help their puppy owners / customers train, show and title the dog. If you do that it is a good reflection on the breeder and in his interest to help you. Down the road offer a pup as payback for all the help if you wish. TO co own a pup is a big gamble and you have everything to lose, not the breeder. Please don't get caught up in the "next VA dog hype."
by melba on 09 February 2012 - 01:31
|Couldn't have said it better myself, Slam.|
I will not go into details, but you can do a message search on my user name to pretty quickly find out the issue I am
currently facing with the dog I co-own.
by workingdogz on 09 February 2012 - 01:39
If you do go ahead with a co-own,
make sure you specify an 'out' clause
so that either you or the co-owner
can buy the other out. I still would
not do it myself, only a very small handful
of co-owns work out, as Slam says, they
tend to benefit the breeder mainly.
And cost you the most
by mfh27 on 09 February 2012 - 01:51
|Out of curiosity, does anyone want to shair what they think is fair co-own terms for both parties? Or is that an oxymoron?|
by Jenni78 on 09 February 2012 - 02:35
|I was going to co-own a dog w/a another forum member who already has a dog from me. It didn't work out but not because of either of us; I just had an opportunity come up to do something else with the dog. If we did it, the deal would go like this: I give her the puppy, she pays shipping only, she takes care of him (lives w/her, she buys his food, etc.) and we split training/showing fees 50/50 as well as vet bills. We split stud fees 50/50 for life, but after he's titled(around 2-3yrs old), he comes home to me, then I pay for his food and we still split vet bills. I get a titled stud of my own breeding because I do NOT have the ability to spend every weekend on a training field at this point, and she gets 1/2 ownership, including 1/2 of every stud fee paid to me, for life from a dog she only has to commit to for as long as she takes to title him.|
by SitasMom on 09 February 2012 - 03:11
could be heaven, could be hell
by SummertimeGSD on 09 February 2012 - 03:30
|It depends on what each party expects from the other. I co-own 3 dogs, 1 lives with me 2 live with others. So far all is going well. As others have stated, make sure that you find out up front what is expected from each party, and get it all in writing. If there is something that you don't agree with, then perhaps it is not the right situation.|
by EchoEcho on 09 February 2012 - 04:16
|Sounds like everyone agrees that I need to get everything very clearly in writing. Thank you very much for the heads up on that. Several people have brought up some very good things to think about and get in writing and I really appreciate it. Do you think that if I title this dog that I should receive more of the compensation on the puppies (meaning more litter picks or better litter picks)?|