German Shepherd Dog > No Palme? (11 replies)
by EuroShepherd on 26 January 2012 - 04:40
|I was curious to see if there are any German showline dogs that have no Palme v Wildsteiger land in their pedigrees (no matter how many generations back) or even if there any dogs that have Palme in their pedigree only once. |
(Note, this is not to say Palme is bad, I know she has been very beneficial to the showline)
Please don't list any working lines or AM showlines that are Palme-free.
Even the "alternative" German Showline dog Timo Berrekasten is linebred on Palme 5,5-5.
The pedigree database reverse-linebreeding says that there are 2459 dogs in the database that are linebred on Palme. The linebreeding records are kept only up to the 5th generation so it's not listing the untold number of dogs who have Palme multiple times in their 6th, 7th, 8th, etc. generations. Since Palme was born in 1979 over 3 decades have passed and numerous generations of dogs (as many as 16 generations.)
I will be shocked if there are any German Showline dogs alive today who do not have Palme anywhere in their pedigree.
by trixx on 26 January 2012 - 15:20
|this is a hard one as i dont know any dog that does not carry Uran v wildsteigerland which is a Palme son, will be intrested to see if there are any dogs without Palme.|
by Mackenzie on 26 January 2012 - 15:34
|Manto v Overledingerland has no Palme|
by Sunsilver on 26 January 2012 - 15:43
|So, anybody see a reason to be worried about the genetics of this? |
by EuroShepherd on 26 January 2012 - 18:29
|Sunsilver, I saw that thread and link, it's largely why I was curious about Palme and posted this thread.|
Mackenzie, thanks for posting him, I'll try to find if any of his progeny and grand-progeny are also Palme free. It's too bad he was born so long ago and he had poor hips.
by Sunsilver on 26 January 2012 - 18:33
|Ah! I thought you might have seen it!|
by VKGSDs on 26 January 2012 - 20:17
|Mine has Palme a few times starting 8 generations back.|
by Mackenzie on 26 January 2012 - 20:53
Manto's hips were noch zugelassen. Most of his influence at that time went forward mainly through Ork vom Wertheraner Land who also had no Palme.
by trixx on 26 January 2012 - 22:20
|thanks for the other post, well i am so glad my female is 8 and in top shape. i hope she lives to an good old age.|
by Sunsilver on 26 January 2012 - 22:39
|My female is an Ursus grand-daughter.|
If you go further back in Urus's pedigree, you'll find Palme SIX times in the 5th generation, and twice in the 6th, for a total of 8 times.
Here's my dog's sire, Erko: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=476201
He has Palme in his dam's line a total of 7 times. So, Star has Palme in her pedigree a total of 15 times through him: 8 from Ursus and 7 from her grand-dam. That's one HELL of a lot of backmassing/inbreeding/whatever you want to call it!
Fortunately, Star's dam was American lines, so she herself is a total outcross! If you check the American side of her pedigree, not even Lance of Fran-jo shows up as often as Palme and some of the other very popular German showline dogs!
by dogshome9 on 27 January 2012 - 00:20
My old girl who died on New years day this year of bloat at 11 years old, was healthy most of her life only developing a neurological problem in the last couple of years
had Palm through her sire's line 8 times.
I guess now I need to check her daughters pedigrees.
by Mackenzie on 27 January 2012 - 08:06
|Another top male with no Palme was Jack v Trienzbachtal who was used many times at stud. He was a Vize Sieger despite having hips rated noch zugelassen.|