German Shepherd Dog > Friends I Need Advice and Encouragement (67 replies)
by shepherdhope on 21 January 2012 - 18:20
I have since found out like gsdland Keira's was hereditary. There is now a genetic test for AF lets hope breeders start to us it more. I know of ONE in the UK that test for this horrific condition.
by JakodaCD OA on 21 January 2012 - 23:42
|This is the PF site http://perianal-fistulas.tripod.com/MainIndex.html |
A wealth of information with vets listed by area that are savvy and up to date with PF treatments.
What works for one may not work for another. I also encourage you to join the PF email list where you will also find a wealth of info from treating, to feeding, to just plain old moral support.
Been there done this with two gsd's. The first one was many many years ago, (both were the result of infected anal glands). the first one I went the cryo surgery route, removed the glands/affected areas , he was 7 years old, lived happily to a ripe old age of 14.
The second was again a few years ago, the result of a blown anal gland. Decided to try the cyclo route, which worked. He was on a 3 month dose, also used Desitin , he was also around 7 and also lived to a ripe old age of 13...He had a few reoccurances but the Desitin took care of the fistulas:)
PF's don't have to be a death sentence, it's just finding what works for your particular case, and maybe changing your protein source. Alot of PF
dogs seem to have other underlying conditions such as sibo, epi, allergies.
In both of my dogs cases, I don't think of them as "true" PF disease as their fistulas were the result of anal gland infection.
Good luck to you and Prince
by Kalibeck on 22 January 2012 - 00:39
|My son's shepherd mix had terrible PF, but even with advanced disease he led a mostly happy life. His exacerbations were bad, but they were pretty well controlled once we figured out the routine that worked for him. Mostly we kept him very clean, he learned to stand & lift his tail for his twice daily cleanings with gentle soap, & I used a spray bottle like you use for peri-care with a mild anti-bacterial/analgesic solution, which seemed to help a lot. When he was bad we used ketaconazole/flagyl/abx (maybe doxycyline? It's been a while...sorry) which calmed down the flare ups. My son took him west with him & he put him on cyclosporin, which helped but was unGodly expensive...so when he couldn't afford it anymore the poor dog re-exacerbated. But all in all, he was mostly a happy dog, who lived to be 12 years old....not too shabby.|
Good luck, jackie harris
by Nans gsd on 22 January 2012 - 00:52
|And my girls problems started with impacted anal glands which had to expressed many, many times before showing ANY kind of progress; almost like an absess in the anal glands. What a mess and a stincky mess. That is why I am thinking your boy would need this no matter what they want to call the problem; please make sure to do this for him and the vet will have to do this to start, you MAY be able to continue for him and maybe not. Depends on you and the dog and the problem and how bad his are. Anyway, good luck. Nan|
by Ruger1 on 22 January 2012 - 01:17
|Thank you everyone for your posts and Pm's..You guys are such a blessing!!!..I just got home from working all day and now have to run out for a family obligation . I only had time to take a peek..I will read through these post later and also the PM's....I am anxious to hear what you all have to say..Thank you..:) |
by djc on 22 January 2012 - 01:44
|Hexe said everything I would have said.... it's good info and advice.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 22 January 2012 - 02:17
| GOOD luck with whatever you decide to do|
I know nothing about this subject but many here do, so of course, do the least invasive with the least chemicals as possible.
Much of it I do not understand,,so hope you get some rest and then start your reading.
by Sam1427 on 22 January 2012 - 03:26
|Sorry to hear about your boy's problem. If it does turn out to be perianal fistulas not resulting from anal sac impaction, I can tell you that it is manageable. I had a female GSD who had a food allergy (to eggs) and who later came down with PF. I kept it under control with regular cleaning with plain water and then applying Protopic ointment and a small fistula doesn't take much ointment. I didn't give anything systemic except a homeopathic remedy prescribed by a vet. My dog was about 9 years old when she was diagnosed and she lived to 13.5 years.|
Good luck with your dog and I hope it is just anal sacs. But even if it is PF, it's manageable. My experienced vet said some fistulas heal up with treatment and never recur, while others decrease in size with treatment and even if they never disappear the dog can be kept comfortable. You can and will deal with this.
by laura271 on 22 January 2012 - 04:56
|Deanna- I'm thinking very positive thoughts for Prince's health. Any illness is very scary in the beginning.|
by Ruger1 on 22 January 2012 - 06:04
Everyone!! Wow, lots of great information here...The posts and the Pm's have really been an encouragement. The advice and support is amazing..Thank you again..
There is so much information here and I will re-read this again after work tomorrow..I am working two 12hr shifts this weekend..: (
Prince has been on Orijen adult formula for about 6-8 months. Taste of the Wild and Natural Balance were his previous foods. His treats are natural salmon treats. That is pretty much all he get besides the occasional can of salmon added to his kibble..
Prince has always had a tendency to have a dirty anal area presenting with a brownish tacky residue..No scooting, no excessive licking, no discomfort. The odor is not as pungent as an anal glad odor. I had a stool sample done not to long ago as well.He is the picture of health with a beautiful shiny coat and no signs of allergies..
The vet did express his anal glands and performed a digital examination as well. Vet said that it did not appear to to be related to an anal gland issue and that when the anal glands were expressed nothing was noted draining out of the fistulas only out of the anal glands. Vet said that most normally, if the anal glands were involved and causing the fistulas, then when expressing the anal glands, fluid would drain out of the fistulas.
Something like that..lol..
I told the vet that Prince has always had an issue with dirtiness around the anal area and I was hoping that the fistulas were a symptom of another problem. Vet said she believes that the dirtiness around the anal area is a symptom related to the fistulas.
My gut tells me if I can find out what is causing the dirtiness around the anal area I might be able to prevent the fistulas...Maybe me wishful thinking or wanting to deny the diagnosis given by the vet...I think I should start with his diet...There are so many choices...!!..I will think on it tomorrow...
I am thinking out loud thanks for listening Nite..:)
by Red Sable on 22 January 2012 - 15:44
You are feeding very good quality food, one of the best, much better than I was feeding at the time (Nutro) so hmmm, maybe this isn't about diet but is hereditary?
by Ruger1 on 23 January 2012 - 16:23
Just got done reading through all the post and PM's.
by Ruger1 on 30 January 2012 - 02:47
|Hello,,,I wanted some opinions on making a diet change...|
I have been reading a lot about diet and AF/perianal fistula and there seems to be some benefit in choosing a single protein diet. If Prince had "normal" stool I would not be quick to make any changes especially since I really like the Orjen he is already on. However, Prince has somewhat softer stools which cause the dirtiness around the anal area.
Here are a couple I was considering??,,,Prince has had a chicken based protein and a fish based protein in the past. All the proteins in the links below he has never had before. Any suggestions about the quality of the ingredients would be appreciated. Any suggestion would be appreciated..lol..Thanks so much...
Natural Balance...Bison or Lamb or Venison,,,
Natures Variety Lamb
Royal Canin GSD ,, only because it claims to be made for GSD ,,made for vbvbb's)
by Jenni78 on 30 January 2012 - 03:00
|I like the Nature's Variety lamb.|
by Ruger1 on 30 January 2012 - 03:05
Have you used Nature's Variety lamb ?..What did you think of the ingredients?,,,Thanks..
by hunger4justice on 30 January 2012 - 05:16
|I am very sorry to hear about this issue. Glad you caught it early. Just to re-iterate what someone said about diet, a new study of adverse food reactions (AFR) showed:|
There was a significant association between AFRs and both otitis externa (OR=5·9; P=0·0015, 95% CI=2 to 17·9) and perianal fistula (OR=26·1; P=0·0058, 95% CI=2·52 to 269·4), although all dogs with perianal fistulas were German shepherd dogs.
Clinical Significance: The prevalence of AFRs in the study population was higher than most reported values. Further studies are warranted to investigate the true prevalence of AFR and its possible association with perianal fistula and other potential markers.
by LadyFrost on 30 January 2012 - 16:31
|Deanna....what about raw?...you literally will have 1/4 size dog poop in comparison to dog food, it will also be "dry" enough that it will not stick to fur and will help you maintain clean bottom...I know you mentioned few times how you feel about feeding raw, but now that it is no longer about you but Prince it may be worth giving a try for his sake...you can always switch back if it does not work, the good thing with raw food you can go back and forth without concerning about transition period...my dogs get both (dog food and raw) depending on what I have available and what is defrosted.....just a thought....|
by the way welcome back....always a pleasure seeing familiar face!
by Ruger1 on 30 January 2012 - 17:56
|Ladyfrost..Hello and thanks for the response..:)|
I did considering feeding raw , but I need to feed a novel protein like lamb, venison, or duck and I am not sure how readily available it would be to find those meats...
The things I have read have not talked much about a raw diet so I am not sure if there is something to with the raw that might not benefit the AF condition....
I know with the anal fistulas, hard stool can aggravate the condition and some dogs are put on a fiber supplement. I would be willing to do whatever is best for Prince and keeping his condition under control..I wonder if a raw diet is too low in fiber????
Back to the drawing board...I am going to read up on AF and feeding raw...Thanks for the inspiration Ladyfrost,,,
by vomtreuenhaus on 30 January 2012 - 20:53
|I will say I do not know anything about AF.|
However, as far as switching foods. I know you mentioned switching from Orijen to possibly Royal Canin GSD (because it is formulated for GSD's). I think of all the foods you listed, this would be one I would not recommend. You are feeding one of the highest, if not the highest, quality grain free kibbles available. Royal Canin is more of a "middle of the road" type, and its ingredient panel can be compared to that of Science Diet and Nutro. In saying that...it is VERY different than what you have previously fed/are currently feeding, and could cause more harm than good as it could cause digestive upset, diahrea, allergic reaction etc (more so than if you were to switch him to a food with a similar ingredient panel to Orijen/what he's been fed previously) Royal Canin is not grain free, and actually uses alot of ingredients proven to cause allergy issues in dogs (and cats). So where his only problem right now is the AF, it could end up being more switching to a completely different food. If you do switch, Like Jose had suggested, try the Orijen 6 Fish formula first and give it 10-12 weeks. If you don't want to stay on the Orijen then the Natural Balance single source protiens would be a good choice, their protien percentages are ALOT lower than that of Orijen so you will end up feeding more (and he will poop more), but nutritionally it is a good alternative. Also the Natures Variety either Instinct Rabbit, or Duck, or the Prairie Lamb or Venison. Also Natures Variety sells a pre-made complete raw diet in both lamb and venison protien sources, and it usually readily available at pet stores, if you wanted to incorporate it into your kibble choice (I feed Orijen kibble and Oma's Pride raw diet) and it could help as well.
IF Royal Canin is something you wanted to go for, I'd do it VERY slowly. Go from Orijen, and slow switch to a higher quality grain food (like the NV Prairie, or Innova) and then from there, go slowly into the Royal Canin.
I hope that helps a little bit.
Best of luck to you and Prince. :)
Who were his parents?
by Ruger1 on 30 January 2012 - 21:20
|vomtreuenhaus, Wow thanks for the post..I did not realize that Natures Variety had a pre made complete raw. I will look into this. I do not like Royal Canin, I just threw that out to see what people thought about a so called GSD specific food...I agree with you 100% ...|
Also, because it has been mentioned twice, here is Princes pedigree..
It HAS NOT been determined as to the cause of Princes fistulas. We are scheduled to see another vet who specializes in this condition on Feb, 14th and I will have better answers. I spoke with the breeder and she has not seen or heard of AF in any of the dogs in Prince's pedigree.
My gut tells me the fistulas are symptom related to a food allergy,,I could be wrong, but that is just my opinion..I will update the thread as I get more information.
Thanks so much..