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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > So your dog is not perfect? (92 replies)
by Dawulf on 17 January 2012 - 04:00 |
| Seriously? What the hell has come over this place recently? It is a nice video. Shows even a dog with a "fault" can still turn out to be something great. He looks happy, as does the owner, so who cares who posted it? Come on! |
Dawulf by beetree on 17 January 2012 - 04:01 |
| Okay, if it works for you. |
beetree by joanro on 17 January 2012 - 04:17 |
| So a dog with a fault gets to be a slave because he has a fault? He can't just be a dog. |
by hexe on 17 January 2012 - 04:18 |
| Yes, quite a touching sight. A talented trainer/handler, and a dog with lovely potential that's being utilized to the benefit of both individuals. It is a mitzvah to have given this promising young dog to someone who needed him. Yet one need not be a confirmed skeptic to consider this post rather disingenuous... There's a VAST difference between a dog whose ears wouldn't stand and a dog whose jaw is so malformed that it needs surgical intervention to address a condition that is causing the dog pain, and a dog whose hips are so poorly formed that the animal will be unable to walk without pain unless there is surgical intervention. A flop-eared GSD can most certainly go on to have a wonderful life, without any pain from those flop-ears, and even become a service dog for someone who needs him or her--without requiring surgical intervention at any time for the flop-ears (before or after the dog is mature). A dog with a deformed jaw that causes the animal pain every time it tries to close it's mouth and when it tries to eat, OTOH, isn't going to have a wonderful life, and isn't going to be able to focus enough for someone to train him to become a service dog--not unless the jaw deformity is corrected surgically and the pain is eliminated by that correction (it's not just a matter of pulling a few puppy teeth). And a dog with hip dysplasia so severe that when he's still under a year of age, there's already evidence of degenerative remodeling of the heads of the femurs and of the acetabula (aka the 'sockets') is also not going to be able to have wonderful life, or go on to become a service dog for someone who needs him, without surgical intervention to address the misconstruction of the hips and reduce the amount of pain the dog will have to endure for it's lifetime...and in this situation, the best one can do is to *reduce* the degree of pain, since eliminating it entirely is simply not possible. From my point of view, the person in the video above and a dog with problems such as in my example above have much in common: both find their joy in being alive, in spite of the cards they were dealt by fate. Common ground between the flop-eared dog and my 'example' dog, not so much, aside from the fact that both would be disqualified from the show ring, and both would (should) not be considered suitable for breeding. There are NO perfect dogs, just as there are NO perfect people. Spending multiple thousands of dollars to purchase a living creature--especially one that you don't consider to be potential food for your table, if things don't work out as you hoped--makes no sense, in my opinion. And I'm never disappointed in any dog...they are who they are, through no fault or decision of their own. The humans who bred the dog, or who raised it, or who abandoned it, OTOH? Oh, yes, I most certainly can be disappointed in THEM...but rarely surprised by that. |
by Dawulf on 17 January 2012 - 04:23 |
| You view service dogs as slaves? How is service dog training any different than any other kind of training? The same could be said of PP/SchH training "You train your dogs to attack people, how dare you!". Slave - a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another. If this is the case, aren't all dogs slaves? Every service dog I have ever met was more than happy to be doing its job. |
by Betty on 17 January 2012 - 05:58 |
| Very talented handler/trainer. A true working dog. |
by workingdogz on 17 January 2012 - 10:14 | |||
Wow Prager, you sure have a set! First, credit where it's due, you are right, that is a true working dog. The trainer has done a fantastic job with the dog, and he will allow his "person" many years of as close to independant living as she can get. How do you even begin to compare this pup in the video with the one you and your partner (wait-no, "he's not my partner/wait no, he is")? That has to be your motivation. You are right, people should never be disapointed in a dog, it's pretty certain Chrissy adores the dog she got through you and your partner, afterall, she has already sunk 2K into correcting his dental issues with that massive overbite that was "missed", and now she is preparing to drop another load of cash into him to hopefully provide him with a pain free life. All before the age of 1. In fact, he isn't much different in age from the pup you linked in the video. Someone gave you the pup, but you indicate you "placed" him. Thats kind of the same creative wording Craigslist sellers use for selling dogs I'm curious what your "rehoming fee" was  I wonder if it was close to the refund amount you had to issue recently. 
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by Abby Normal on 17 January 2012 - 11:43 |
| Yes, the trainer is very talented, and there are many talented dogs trained as assistance dogs - they are all wonderful. But, I agree with Beetree, this is a merely a distraction. For me this post has everything to do with who posted it, and why. Look at the title of the thread – the grossest insult, after everything that has gone before. Yes, maybe when Chrissy is feeling low we can suggest that she should come here and have a look at this and it will make her feel all better. Even better, maybe someone will make a heartwarming video about owners having to have expensive surgery so their handicapped dogs can walk and eat and have a normal life – really heartwarming stuff. I sat and stared at this post for some time as I really just could not believe what I was seeing. |
Abby Normal by Red Sable on 17 January 2012 - 11:52 |
| Well said Abby, I totally agree. Tasteless and tactless. |
Red Sable by Blitzen on 17 January 2012 - 13:20 |
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exploitation |
Blitzen by dantes on 17 January 2012 - 14:04 |
| Absolutely heartbreaking. By that, I mean the amount of cynicism here on PBD. I cannot believe that you people are serious. A dog on another thread had a bad overbite. A replacement was offered AND DECLINED. Perhaps it shouldn't have been shipped BUT IT WAS. The situation has been resolved, in that a refund was made. The owner of the pup CHOSE to keep it, against all common sense, but that was HER CHOICE. Will every post from that kennel/partnership/whatever now be subject to this kind of derailment? Anyone who has bred a litter has bred a fault. It is that simple. Some faults are obvious, some become so. The more litters you have, the more faults you will have. The more dogs you handle, the more chance of an error. Complacency kicks in, and it sometimes takes a BIG error (like that one) to ensure that we step back and review our practices. Does that mean that all fruit from the tree is now poisoned? Ridiculous. Monday morning quarterbacks. |
by workingdogz on 17 January 2012 - 14:52 |
| Making this to the point: 'dog' with the overbite should have NEVER been shipped to buyer unless she was told about the bite prior to accepting her $$$$$$$$$ Go back and read those links supplied that give an accurate account of time passing before getting communications returned etc. Tell us how much 'faith' you would then have in the same broker/breeder. How would YOU have liked to have been in young Chrissy's shoes? Your hard earned money spent? I bet you would have a different outlook. You know what? I know Alpine & Jinopo have brokered, bred & sold some NICE dogs, that's a given fact, what stinks is how they conduct business when they think 'no one' is 'looking'. Morals and ethics are not just defined by how you conduct yourself when everyone is watching, it's based more on what you do/don't when 'no one' is looking. And you know? If these types of comments save another 'Chrissy' from happening? Then they are worth typing here. |
by joanro on 17 January 2012 - 15:13 |
| Complacency should never "kick in", and if so many dogs are being "handled" that huge screw ups occur then it's time to reevaluate breeding practices. The idea is to breed better dogs, not accept creating more "faults". |
by karen forbes on 17 January 2012 - 15:42 |
| Thanks for posting that video-it was nice to see |
by Jenni78 on 17 January 2012 - 15:42 |
| Joanro, I agree with your last post 100%. This is not only to Joanro specifically, but to everyone offended by this video. I just don't think this is appropriate thread for it. Let's even assume Hans is every bit as bad as you say (though I'm really confused because I swore Joanro apologized and said you had settled your differences privately). Does that mean that this isn't a video that is worthwhile enough to be posted here? Do you really believe all service dogs are slaves? As Dawulf said, a SchH dog isn't? A dog who wears e-collars in the interest of cleaning up a performance or earning higher points is, what, a volunteer?! Yet a dog who gets drinks from the fridge for a handicapped handler is a slave? Hans should be smart enough to never post anything here, because it's clear that no matter what he says, it will somehow be brought back around to the latest debacle and the flavor of the month...Chrissy's dog (except when I manage to steal the spotlight, lol). I agree with Dantes that you must be very very cynical, bitter people to be so sure there is an ulterior motive behind every posting. But let's assume again that you're right, and he's just evil. Who cares?! How does that take away from the relationship depicted in the video or the lesson that we could all take away from it? Even a broken clock is right twice per day. |
Jenni78 by brynjulf on 17 January 2012 - 16:01 |
| The video was really interesting. So Hans had to be forced into rectifying the situation. He did fix it , did he not ? Chrissy has decided to keep the dog and pay a zillion dollars in vet bills, her choice. So leave it at that. Man you guys . Dogs who serve us are slaves???? What ????that dog clearly loved his servitude. I am darn near impossible to make pissy but this morning you guys managed it. Thanks for that. You are my heros!! Shame on you! Doesnt anyone remember the words " if you can't say nothin nice don't say nothing at all ? "Get this board back to an educational forum. I'm going to train some dogs. |
by judron55 on 17 January 2012 - 16:33 |
| whew...so much time...so little training:-) Hans who....! |
judron55 by Sunsilver on 17 January 2012 - 16:58 |
| I think Hans is making a damn good point. How many of you would rehome a dog with weak ears? It wouldn't surprise me to find that some of you might even not be too careful about WHO you rehomed it too. It all depends on how cuttthroat you are to get that next ribbon, title or trophy! I am the proud owner of a GSD someone was going to shoot, because it did not meet their expectations as a watch dog. He's been my hearing ear dog for the last 6 years, and I couldn't have asked for a dog better suited to the task! As he's now 10 years old, I'm training my female GSD as his replacement. She was purchased as a show quality, breeding quality bitch. The breeder also felt she had the potential to be a service dog, too. Her pigment faded, and she has a mildly dysplastic hip. I was extremely disappointed. I didn't even think she could do service dog work, because she's fairly high drive, and gets easily distracted by her environment. She wants to check EVERYTHING out, and forgets she's to focus only on me. (Yes, I know, more training is needed, and she's getting better...) Then, last summer, she started doing Ranger's service dog tasks without even being trained for them. One day, Ranger failed to alert to the door. Star ran to the door, woofed once, then ran back and put her paws up on my knees. She also woke me in the middle of the night to tell me the smoke alarm was doing the low battery beep! She's now in training as his replacement, and doing extremely well, even with the public access training! Let's cut Hans some slack, and leave the nastiness in the other thread. I am willing to take this post at face value. Our dogs aren't perfect, and neither are we! BTW that 'slave' comment made me want to toss my cookies! Service dogs LIVE to work! Remember my favourite SD, Mali? Mali got herself all muddy, and her owner wasn't able to use her because she just couldn't take a flilthy dog into a store. Mali REMEMBERED what had happened, and has been very careful not to get muddy ever since! She LOVES her work that much! And yes, she IS THAT SMART! I've heard too many incredible stories about her and other service dogs not to believe she was able to make the connection between being muddy and not being allowed to go with Sherri. |
Sunsilver by vomtreuenhaus on 17 January 2012 - 16:59 |
| There is no reason to breed dogs with no purpose. Even pet dogs are there for human companion ship, is that not their job in life? German shepherds especially were bred for WORK and created for WORK. If there is aimless breeding for useless dogs, is there purpose in that? No. So to sit here and call dogs, that were CREATED for work, slaves, is just stupid. Stop breeding dogs, and all animals in general, if you believe their happiness in their desire to work is slavery. Stop breeding dogs and all animals in general, if there is no purpose for them because purpose is slavery. The way this thread was brought to our attention was unnecessary. But it provided a very heart touching video. Being one of the members that has been sitting on the sidelines and reading the few days worth of threads and replies has just led me to believe that the people that are unable to just let go and let the situation be what it is and move on, have some serious lack of things to do with their day and time. The situation was resolved, end it. |
vomtreuenhaus by Prager on 17 January 2012 - 17:08 |
| OMG. Here is my statement to some and not to the others.... There is no comparison to Krissy!!!! The only "comparison" is made by you. And there is no "diversion". It did not even cross my mind to create "diversion". Is that how cynically your mind works? I have posted the video because it touched me and since often I am dealing with people who dump their dogs because imperfection in exterior or training abilities. That pains me. I get call like that 1x 2x per week. Would you take my dog he is this or that. I wanted such people to see the video and think. That is all. Instead bunch of anonymous haters and trolls hijacked this post about beautiful relationship of this girl with her dog. I know that it is a mistake to post here because you are unable to see goodness in good and will excoriate me here shortly after this post,.. since anything I say is a fuel for you to get your internet hi. Beetree did not even look at the video in fear that she may like it. I truly feel sorry for you. In my youth I was told that anonymity impairs morals. I guess Plato said it. All these statements here are anonymous and thus immoral, trollish accusations. This is dog forum ,...or has been,... I should say. ... I and many others used to post here advices to novices. This was helpful to many. " Psychological research has proven again and again that Anonymity increases unethical behavior. Road rage bubbles up in the relative anonymity of one’s car. And in the online world, which can offer total anonymity, the effect is even more pronounced. People — even ordinary, good people — often change their behavior in radical ways. There’s even a term for it: the on line disinhibition effect".* Anonymously people say what ever vile statements. Lies and 1/2 truth and projections-like on this thread. I am the foremost expert on my morals and ethics and I am not ashamed of any impropriety. have made mistakes? Oh yes. Malicious immoral impropriety? Absolutely not. I am not anonymous. You know why? Because I have nothing to hide. You have. Prager Hans *Statement of: Julie Zhuo , a product design manager at Facebook P.S. Now go and rip. |
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