German Shepherd Dog > Bad backs??? (44 replies)
by Mitchell92 on 15 January 2012 - 09:06
I just bought a GSD puppy recently and have a few pictures of the parents and a breeder has told me that the parents have bad backs just by looking at the pictures. I would like your opinions please.
Just copy and paste image link into address bar.
This was here comment:
She says: They have bad backs!
She says: See they way it drops at the back? That's hip dysplasia, They have bred it in to show dogs where as police german shepherds have straight backs and nothing wrong with their hips :)
by jdiaz1791 on 15 January 2012 - 13:16
|Is because that breeder is ignorant of what a Show Line German Shepherd is AND as a matter of fact,the best well rounded Working Lines have that slant ( CROUP is what is called ). Please, what is her name and or kennel,web site so I can educate her? ;PM me if you don't want to write it here. As a matter of fact, by far in different researches done in East Germany,most Working Line dogs have back problem,as you can see in one of the fact that most of their pedigree is KKL2 ( some structural faults,etc ) and not the desirable KKL1. Back in the day,most of the comunists countries genetically control ,which had some negative effect in their overall DNA make up and bred most of the Working Lines ( DDR, Czech ,Slovakia ) and looking for the perfect killing machine,big ,strong dog , which ended up being in many of them being hyper,crazy drives and unfortunately the only people that will have them was police and military. The slant croup from the Show Lines came from one of the dogs that was "mixed in " which will aid in effortles running and ground covering when they were herding back in the day..|
Can any dog have a bad back? Of course, so tell this breeder to find a better way to sell her dogs instead of ignorantly saying negative things about the Show Lines.
by grunwaldhaus on 15 January 2012 - 13:18
|"See they way it drops at the back? That's hip dysplasia, They have bred it in to show dogs where as police german shepherds have straight backs and nothing wrong with their hips "|
Just a bad...joke. That's all.
by GSDguy08 on 15 January 2012 - 13:21
|Here we go again.........|
by Blitzen on 15 January 2012 - 13:32
|If that were true, every GSL dog born in the last 15 years would have a "bad back" and/or "bad hips". SOME WL breeders hate the GSL's and never miss an opportunuity to demonstrate how inferior they are in every way possible. This breeder makes it sound as if no WL ever had HD or a back problem.|
I'd ignore it, you can't fix stupid.
by Jenni78 on 15 January 2012 - 13:52
|Hillybilly comment, Mitchell92. Sounds like some old hag BYB telling whatever tales she can tell to peddle her straight-backed old Am. pet lines. What is a "police german shepherd" by the way? Did she elaborate on that? Anyway..... I'm not into show line strcture by ANY stretch, nor the dogs themselves, however, whoever said that is just ignorant. |
Did you ever respond on the other thread? I think a few of us asked for a pedigree, though we were just trying to guess lines and wondering if he had anything but showlines in there, so I guess that's not really necessary at this point.
Back to the topic, I will say jdiaz' comments are not a whole lot more informed...
Seriously, jdiaz? I mean, really? As a matter of "fact" most WL dogs have back problems? And if you need to have frog legs to cover a lot of ground, how have wild canids fared for all these eons? I've never seen coyote, nor wolf, nor fox, stand like it's eternally peeing, and I would say they cover a bit more ground than a SL GSD...maybe not in circles, but nonetheless....that's an asinine argument. Like many other things, breeding for an extreme when a slight hint of that trait may be desireable is how SL structure got to be what it is today. I know you're not the first to propagate it, but I just can't let that "ground covering" thing slide right after hearing that most WL dogs have back problems.
by Red Sable on 15 January 2012 - 14:06
|Killing machines? LOL|
jdiaz, you should be the last one to educate her, as you are exactly the same as her, only on the SL side.
by jdiaz1791 on 15 January 2012 - 14:21
|When you are going to buy a quality WL, or spend some money, don't you require that his back is tested,ok'ed by a vet? I have many,many WL friends some police and they do. MANY of you in this board mentioned this all the time. Jenni,read a bit of the history of SL and WL, is right there. The government control most of these dogs and they bred them to be fierced creatures for work,to protect to fight, yes like killing machines, I didn't say that is what they are today. Any cop I know,that takes their dog home,as long as they are there is ok to let the dog loose,BUT not when they are not around..could you say the same thing about some SL? Of course, just like I anoted that any dog can have a bad back...easy ,easy|
by Blitzen on 15 January 2012 - 14:35
|Ouch.......it hurts to have your dogs critisized so bitterly, doesn't it? I honestly cannot recall ever reading such a strong critisicm on WL dogs as jdiaz's here, but GSL owners take it all the time. When they complain, they are told to suck it up and stop being so sensitive. When they asked for their own forum to avoid taking it in the shorts so often, they were called cry babies. |
I don't know jdiaz but I can understand it if he was finally pushed over the edge by one more incorrect blanket condemnation of GSL's. Looks like he has worked hard to get where he is with his dogs.
I hope something good comes from realizing that none of us appreciate having our special dogs getting deep sixed in such a general way due to their pedigrees. Maybe we can become more aware of how such broad statements can cut to the quick. I also hope the OP has learned that his 2 SL pups are good dogs and not from deformed parents.
I will never post much here about my current GSD, an Am CH 3/4 ASL's, 1/4 GSL's even if she ever does something truly impressive which she probably won't, just look at that pedigree!!! The PDB general opinion of ASL's is even lower than WL vs SL vs WL and I wouldn't want to read about what a piece of crap she must be. After all those ASL's are all crippled hock walkers and the sources of every health issue in the breed today, right?
First let's kill ALL the showlines....................
by joanro on 15 January 2012 - 14:42
|Jdiaz, the SL would probably be perfectly safe unsupervised, but the cop probably isn't going to be taking a SL home from work. I think needing to be present to supervise is a small price to pay for having a dog that will literally put his life on the line for his handler. He isn't going to be running the other way when things get gnarly, he'll be eye to eye, toe to toe with the bad guy. Jenni, you cracked me up, very good post!! Blitzen, now I understand your obsession with DM, and if there is nothing wrong with ASL why mix with GSL? I remember nine or ten years ago how the ASL community was so critical of the conformation of the GSL. Wonder what happened to change their collective minds?|
by SitasMom on 15 January 2012 - 14:46
wither could be higher, croup angle is OK, but could be longer......
wither could be higher, croup sloping and short......
these are typical 80's german shepherds.......
there is no indication of dysplacia - but one needs an x-ray to determine such things, not a stack photo........
maybe what the breeder indended to say was "bad toplines" and not "bad backs"?
by Blitzen on 15 January 2012 - 14:51
And the beat goes on..........
by Sunsilver on 15 January 2012 - 14:57
|Of course, that means you can tell a dog has hip dysplasia just by looking at it, right? |
Why bother with OFA and all that nonsense? Just a waste of money!
Not too crazy about the head on the female, or her steep croup, though...
by Jenni78 on 15 January 2012 - 14:57
|Good grief, here we go again! Jdiaz, I am not the one who needs to read up on history. Red Sable was the one who picked at the killing machines part of your post. You are somewhat correct; those early dogs of the Eastern bloc were indeed supposed to be something very similar to that, if we're generalizing. I disagree with saying that those dogs are currently any of those things you said, but you are at least partially right, and it was Red Sable who found that funny, not me;-)|
I just said how bizarre I thought it was to say it's a FACT that MOST WL dogs have bad backs. That's just silly. The fact that people xray doesn't mean they're bad. It's a precaution. That's like saying every dog whose hips have been xrayed is dysplastic.
Also, to allege that extreme angulation is needed for ground-covering is a bit off the mark, though as I mentioned, I know that you're not the originator of that theory; that's a common statement. But it's kind of silly, don't you think? Look at wild animals and animals who truly need to be efficient hunters and travel extensively. How many look like that?
Sitasmom, the comment was quite clear. It was about backs. And hips.
by Blitzen on 15 January 2012 - 15:01
Yep, here we go again...................
by beetree on 15 January 2012 - 15:07
|Here Blitzen, this ought to cheer you up a bit ...|
And Mitchell, don't worry--- your pup is in with some good company...
by Blitzen on 15 January 2012 - 15:08
Oh, I guess some ASL breeders just saw the light, Joanro. My "obsession" with DM has nothing to do with ASL's. The dog I was involved with was imported from Europe.
by Jenni78 on 15 January 2012 - 15:09
|It would be really nice if people would address the correct posters regarding comments. Not much point in arguing with your sister when it was your brother who pissed you off, you know? |
by Blitzen on 15 January 2012 - 15:12
|Thanks, beetree, that makes me think I might buy one some day.|
by badeend91 on 15 January 2012 - 15:12
|LMAO, people who write such thing should not even breed. You can not see it from the way their back drops. The only way you can KNOW is to get them xrayed.|