German Shepherd Dog > SV website announcement Team Marlboro Jaguar (142 replies)
by Jantie on 31 January 2012 - 05:31
|The breeding ban on all of Jaguars progeny MUST be enforced.|
It is NOT acceptable for GSD's in the SV-breedbook that their parents have rotten hips or elbows!
The progeny of Tell was banned, so must the progeny of Jaguar. It really does NOT matter where the pups were born!! Try logic!!
I have said it before:
Man hat mich heute mehrmals danach befragt ob Harley nun endgültig aus dem Zuchtbuch gestrichen werden wird. Meine Antwort ist eindeutig!
Also, auf gut Deutsch könnte man zusammenfassen: Rüden mit kaputten Ellenbogen bekommen im SV in Deutschland eine komplette Nachzuchteintragungssperre, und es spielt dabei nun wirklich keine Rolle ob der Nachwuchs in Deutschland, Guatemala oder Neuseeland geboren wurde!
Etwas anderes erlauben die Regeln NICHT!
Sollte der Hauptzuchtwart Reinhardt Meyer sich GEGEN die Nachzuchteintragungssperre aussprechen, ist er als Zuchtwart nicht länger tragbar und hätte in dem Verein der eine gesunde Zucht promotet nichts mehr zu suchen. Er würde sich gegen die Zuchtordnung und somit gegen eine saubere Zucht kehren.Please feel free to translate!
You all have a nice day now!
by Rik on 31 January 2012 - 05:48
Is Harley born in Germany.
by Miro on 31 January 2012 - 08:04
|If Jaguar was not the father of top dog,no one will look at hips and elbows and no one will wright about this dog at all|
by Mackenzie on 31 January 2012 - 10:48
Jantie writes "It is NOT acceptable for GSD's in the SV-breed book that their parents have rotten hips or elbows!” and, I would extend that to any other health problem that is detrimental to our breed. Breeders must take into account all the factors behind any animal that is to be used for breeding and consider whether they be either prohibited from breeding or used sparingly. It does not matter where the dog is born if it carries with it anything that is any way harmful to the GSD. That is just common sense.
Breeding is not just about following and using the current successful animals. Many of these are placed because they are to be sold and the money people can get a better price for the dog. Corruption!!
To be successful a Breeder must have a good working knowledge of the breeding families and the qualities that they transmit whether they are from Germany or any other country. Unfortunately, health problems are kept behind closed doors where only a selected few are aware of the problems. For example there is a top male from the last Sieger show who has four well known epileptic producers behind him. These males were not from Germany and they were all active and producing epileptics around the same time. With this knowledge a prudent, genuine breeder would investigate whether this problem has bred on before actually using the dog. This type of information may take some time to find because of the secrecy that surrounds the problem. Readers please note that I am NOT suggesting that epileptic progeny has been produced by this dog.
It is not right that the SV and other governing bodies in other countries hold themselves out as having high values when the fact is that they turn a blind eye to what is happening. Worse still, when they are made aware and, the speed at which these matters are dealt with, the outcome is alarmingly slow in being published. If they do nothing then historically most of the problems go away and everything returns to just “business as usual”. Perhaps the time is coming in the breed where an “Arab Spring” is around the corner.
by Videx on 31 January 2012 - 16:03
|Perhaps Jantie and other could at least TRY and read the SV announcements 1 & 2 VERY CAREFULLY. |
It is after all what matters and until they have made their final decision pre-judging should be avoided.
When the SV have made their final decision, it may then be the appropriate time to make criticisms if you do not agree.
Kangaroo court mentality from any individual should always be IGNORED and avoided. Jantie appears to hold his own Kangaroo Court regularly.
Generalities may be appealing, however ALL the specifics about each individual case are supreme and what matter.
by paulo on 31 January 2012 - 19:24
|Better a whistleblower than letting cheats get away with a fraud that may have a genetic knock on effect for generations.|
by Videx on 31 January 2012 - 20:13
|paulo: Your comment as usual illustrates limited understanding of the key apects of the subject under discussion. Generalisation as usual, you should consider the specifics of this case.|
For example: Some people consider that the crime of murder is the same for anyone who kills someone and deserves the same punishment in each and every case. A simplistic generalisation which is not worthy of civilised society.
Each and every offence should be carefully considered on its own facts and evidence. Not with simplistic generalisations.
by Sue Worley on 31 January 2012 - 22:56
|sorry David...I have been talking to the people in Germany who had Harley, and reading all on here, the bottom line is that this is WRONG, in any way shape or form it is UNFORGIVABLE..please don't tell me that you think that it is ok...yes, we have to wait to see what descision the SV come to, but that doesn't change what has happened does it ??? Also in amogst all this hiddeousness is a dog who has done no wrong to anyone , unfortunately his elbows weren't his forte...so where is he now, and what is his future and also that of Harley and the others, they all seem to get shoved to one side in the grand scheme of lining pockets..dog lovers... I don't think so!|
by Videx on 01 February 2012 - 00:25
|I have NOT said it is right - I am simply pointing out those with RESPONSIBILITY should be allowed to CONCLUDE their decisions on this matter, especially in respect of Harley.|
Too many people without any responsibility with regards to this problem and making the decisions, go straight in with their CONCLUSIONS, even if they fail to know or understand ALL the Rules & Regulations, especially with regard to dogs born outside of Germany.
Simply put: let us await the final decision of the SV. Organisations cannot make instant decisions in the manner of individuals with NO accountability to the Organisations Rules & Regulations and the Members.
It is clear a wrong has been done, the SV have stated that. However there is clearly a need for the SV people responsible for such matters to give further consideration. Which again they have made clear in their 2nd announcement.
Barackroom lawyers (and there are many) do not impress me and never have and never will. The normal problem is they don't even recognise themselves as one.
by Jantie on 01 February 2012 - 05:38
You said: "the bottom line is that this is WRONG, in any way shape or form it is UNFORGIVABLE.."
And you are right!
Now David Payne, Dog1, Silbersee... may time and time again try to undermine my credibility, call me names, write lenghty comments of how wrong I am...
In the end, it doesn't matter.
I am the Assange of the GSD-world, and I'm getting things done. Things that in the past you would never have heard about.
I have brought the facts into the open, people didn't let me. (At first.)
And I am telling you what the (only!) decision must be.
The progeny of Jaguar must and will be banned, no matter what.
Why? Because we care about health in the breed and because it's the only ethical way to treat this matter!
No matter how they twist and turn and toss around here on the forum with words and clouds of distracting nothings!
WE, the members are making the decisions! WE are the basis of the Club.
The SV-members will not tolerate unhealthy breedings and fraud.
So we enforce the decision, David Payne!
WE, the backroom lawyers.
We'll take you beyond "impressed".
Follow up on me, my next paper is in the making.
See you all soon!
by Videx on 01 February 2012 - 10:10
thought they were acting against WRONG - every time
DOES THAT MAKE THEM RIGHT?
by Mackenzie on 01 February 2012 - 10:57
|Sorry David but Lynch Mobs are illegal just like many things in the GSD World. Mackenzie|
by Videx on 01 February 2012 - 11:54
|Lynch mobs are illegal, and condemnation of a dog like Harley BEFORE the correct responsible process is finalised is WRONG|
Lynch mobs condemn a person to HANG before the correct responsible process is finalised - Fully Comprehend that!
That is exactly my point.
by Mackenzie on 01 February 2012 - 13:35
David, I fully understand your comments on regarding matters of procedure and I am in full agreement with that. I also agree that the condemnation of Harley before the responsible process is finalised is wrong.
Jantie has only used Harley, the best offspring from Jaguar, as the example for all of the Jaguar offspring to be stricken from the breeding book. That is a little different from actually condemning Harley for himself.
The SV have accepted the conclusions of the Swedish Authority in that a fraud has been committed. They have put their procedure in place to deal with the matter but what is the protocol for this? Does it include the following
1. The immediate suspension from a breeding programme of Jaguar and all of his progeny until the SV has reached a conclusion
2. As a fraud has been committed is there now a police investigation with the SV standing down until the police findings are concluded.
3. Have all the interested parties been summoned to give evidence and who are they
4. Who will lead the SV investigation and who will be assisting. Is it just one person alone. When will their identity be announced
Finally, who will judge the SV?
by Dog1 on 01 February 2012 - 13:47
Let me try to help you.
No one wants anyone to get away with anything. No one wants to see the breed comprimised. On that we can agree.
Rather than state the situation and then go on to name people as cheaters, report innaccurate information as truth, draw conclusions about what must be done, say the head organization and all the judges are corrupt, etc.
Just report what facts you have and explain the facts up until the point that the facts are disclosed and maybe suggest some of what may happen as a result.
You don't need to slander people and make claims that do not come true to make your point.
by Videx on 01 February 2012 - 13:54
|The answers to your questions above are for the SV or the Police - NOT for any other individual or group of people.|
Who will Judge the SV - the answer is "The Members" when appropriate in the appropriate manner - The event is NOT finalised as yet by the SV.
Courts of Justice hear ALL the evidence before making a decision of guilt or innocense - finally they decide on punishment. Then there is usually an appeals process available.
No judge would punish before or during that process, and consider all related Rules & Regulations related to the issues. Any one who would is a "barackroom lawyer" or has a "lynchmob mentallity" and is WRONG.
This is my last comment until the SV have made their decisions.
by Mackenzie on 01 February 2012 - 15:34
David, please read what I have said again. You will see that the question that I raised was regarding the protocol for the SV enquiry and did it include the points I listed. There is no suggestion in my post that anyone should pass judgement on anything.
At this stage there is no indication that the matter will be placed before a Court of Justice and investigation by the SV will by no means fulfill that role. Your reference to the Courts of Justice and judgements is a well know process to everyone. The media provide sufficient information in their reporting for everyone to understand those processes.
I am certainly not a barackroom lawyer and if your read carefully you will see that I have passed opinion and raised legitimate questions but I have not passed judgement on anything. Whether they are right of wrong lynch mobs are motivated by emotion rather than reason and I certainly do not have that mentality.
by Videx on 01 February 2012 - 20:19
|Read Jantie's comment on Harley under "the dogs user comment section" http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=676142&p=discussion|
This is lynch mob mentality - mob rule- diabolical presumption, typical of Jantie's and others.
Many people resort to such behaviour - then they completely change around when THEY are the victim of such behaviour.
They should recognise such appalling behaviour whoever is the victim of it.
by Jantie on 02 February 2012 - 05:28
|Just to put an end to the thread and all speculation: ALL of Jaguar's progeny will be banned from the SV breeding book.|
And if you David, wish to keep on slandering me, feel free to do so. Go ahead.
I have posted my 2 cents, people following my quest will know what it's worth.
by Abhi on 02 February 2012 - 07:56
|Jantie it's worth a million, an individual like you is worth more than a ton of pure gold.|