German Shepherd Dog > SV website announcement Team Marlboro Jaguar (142 replies)
by Videx on 18 January 2012 - 12:53
|Jantie will never understand any comment that disagrees with his own viewpoint, he will also resort to ridiculous reasons for why you may be biased in order to bolster his disagreement with you. He seriously thinks he is the only source of information and that his exaggerated speculation regarding such information is wholly accurate. Anyone who expresses a carefully considered and measured opinion, based on all available information, Jantie will consider they are wrong and biased, and his own exaggerated speculation is the truth. Pathetic!|
by Silbersee on 18 January 2012 - 14:05
|Oh wow! I expected Jantie to attack me as usual but this tops the cake! Admins and Mods, please do not delete any of his posts as this documents how twisted and radical Jantie's thinking and philosophy is. He turns every tidbit to his advantage: If the SV does not get involved as they are legally not able to, the SV is bad and corrupt for not doing enough. If they do get involved, the SV is showing favoritsm and bullies small people. Yes, I do understand and read German (still a bit better than English) and I do read your blog every once in a while when I have some spare time. Some has merit (I give you that) and other writings are for entertainment purposes at best - like the exchange between the SV and the owner of Charlotte vom Harzer Grubenlicht, for example. But this is not the thread to get into that subject.|
If you read my previous post, you will see that not once have I condoned breeding to a dog with questionable hips or elbows (or both for that matter), or worse, support people who cheat. On the contrary! I have just brought some reasoning into all these accusations by pointing out the different countries and their breeding requirements and that the SV is bound to honor them through the FCI memberships and Memorandum of Understanding (AKC).
Why do you, Jantie feel the need to attack me and my integrity every time I dare to post a comment to one of your rants? You have done that for years, either here on the Pedigreedatabase or on one of the German discussion boards which you do not frequent much anymore because the membership there will jump all over you just for what you stand for. You put out statements that I am in it with the SV judges and Koermeisters. That is absolutely not true! I have no personal friendships there. There are some judges I despise and some I admire and respect. I won't get into naming names. The only friendship my family and I have ever had with a big time breeder and Körmeister was Richard Dexel who passed away years ago. His and his family's integrity still speaks for itself! In addition, I hardly breed much. Out of the last 4 litters in two and a half years, 3 were workingline and only one showline. This should tell you what my tendencies are. I would therefore appreciate it if you stopped attacking me with these false claims. Please do your homework first! And don't even go there that I should not flatter myself! You do have an infatuation with me, or maybe you are scared of my responses because I put a dent into your accusations and rantings and therefore limit your credibility.
Yours in the sport, Chris
by Louis Donald on 21 January 2012 - 06:30
|Jantie you have made your point in effusive detail and any further comments will do nothing to further your concerns or opinions on this matter, they will only cause you discredit. |
The SV are aware of the matter, regardless of your cynicism they will deal with it appropriately and until they gather all the relevant facts and come to a conclusion I suggest you chill out.
by Jantie on 21 January 2012 - 10:33
|I could not care less about discredit, Louis.|
I mostly refrain from even reading the other comments alltogether and people should know they cannot hurt me.
Insiders follow the information I slide in between very closely, and DO take it serious, my agenda is NOT the agenda of my attackers.
I will continue to browse through the corruption and the enrichment within the SV. And believe me, things are finally happening.
Of course I do not disclose ALL of my information, but if people only knew they would soon shut up.
Any time now, I will report about another case of terrible conduct, if only I had some more time.
Afterwards, if things DO happen, the people here will again repeat it had nothing to do with my actions.
And frankly, I don't care.
Jaguar will soon be on the screening table now, with no chance of putting another dog in place, and he will be checked by Dr. Tellhelm. We are waiting for the outcome.
Ut aliduid fiat!
by paulo on 21 January 2012 - 13:16
Dog ? place down list dependant on amount of money/ego involved :(.
by Jantie on 26 January 2012 - 17:07
Wichtige Information ! (Ergänzung zur Information „Aktuell 01/12“)
Aus diesem Grund ist der in Schweden zuerkannte Befund „mittlere ED“ als verbindlich anzusehen und der in Deutschland zuerkannte Befund muss aberkannt werden. Infolgedessen müssen die „V“-Bewertung der letztjährigen SV-Bundessiegerzuchtschau sowie die Ankörung für den Rüden aberkannt werden.
Über die möglichen Weiterungen aus diesem Vorgang werden wir umgehend informieren.
by Miro on 27 January 2012 - 07:44
|SV stinks from bottom to top|
by Oskar1 on 27 January 2012 - 11:39
as I have not posted in quite a while, I would like to point out that this post will be the one & only, after this I will crawl back under the stone I came from.
As much as I can understand, that some are under the impression that Jan's only merrit in life is to cause trouble - I can assure you this is not so. What he does, and that hurts the feelings of a lot of peopel, he puts his fingers in open wounds and has the guts to speak that out.
It is hard to understand why his 1st warning about Jaguar was deleted - it was clearly not his assumptions and allegations - it was from the Swedish Kennel Club, Jan was only bringing it to the attention of the world, not more not less. - David, I can allready hear you - dont even go that route, you do just the same thing, wether or not someone likes to hear your opinion, you speak freely your mind - so can Jan. -
If this warning only prevented 1 female owner from using either Jaguar or Harley, for stud, he allready did a a good deed ! We all know what happened here, dont we ? It was not Jaguar on that X-ray table - so does anyone believe that this was a "mistake" or that this is something that should be graciously overlooked ?
So what does that mean for the dogs ?
By the book - Jaguar lost his ranking BSZ 2011 and Körung allready, he should have not gotten it to beginn with.
That means ALL his progeny will loose their Pedigree and all results they may have achieved so far !
Basicly, they are mutts !
And you claim, all this can happen without anyone of the bigshots of the SV knowing nothing about it ? You know what, I might have been born at night.......
Chris, forgive me, I do have a lot of respect for you, after all, you helped Kenny a bit, for which I am thankfull. To think that the correspondence with the owner of Charlotte vom Harzer Grubenlicht is a amusing story at best - it may for you, it definetly was not amusing for Christine Lindner. I have been in contact with her, and I have to admit, this story left quite a bad taste in my mouth. You are right, it was a deal between 2 partys, the SV stays useually out of that - they became involved when they did not, from the get go, inform Christine correctly. The hole procedure took too long, was inaccurate, yep we will put a "Nachzuchtsperre" in Charlottes papers based on an x-ray at the age of 8 month !!, but we will not accept that same x-ray for the Zuchtwert !
by Oskar1 on 27 January 2012 - 11:54
To put this at rest - I really thought this story not to be funny at all, and I am somewhat amazed, that soneone can see this as funny.
To round this up :
I truely believe that sometimes the language barrier takes its toll. And one more thing, Jan has been assulted quite a bit - maybe, sometimes he went overboard. But on the other hand, many other things were made public by him, that we would have never known......or at least not the mass of peopel that do now. I personally do know that other peopel were threatend, stating the truth - one can only try to imagine what that means for daily life.
Jan is probably very tense, and maybe he sees enemys where we wont - but hey, at this time he reacts like a dog cornerd, biting and trying to protect in all directions.
But again, Jan pinpoints out, that a whole lot is going wrong in the SV -
- Tell Rieser Perle
-Tony Rieser Perle
-Dog brokers beeing members of the SV
-Dog brokers that are allowed to be in the ring during competition
Many of these topics would still be lying in the dark, if it would not be Jan.After all it reads for me like this :
1. Jan posted a warning - in his words, using the mail from the swedish club
2.PDB delets the post, claiming hearsay - oh well, we will never find out who made them delete it !
3. Now the SV posted the very same thing on their HP, just days later !
4. Now we have the answer to all our questions, and all believe them now - they just would not believe what Jan wrote, to begin with ! Now that's pathetic !
Anyhow, I wish all of you the very best for 2012 - may all your dreams come true.
by Videx on 27 January 2012 - 12:31
|Some people consider taking facts, then adding their own (wishful facts) then adding exaggeration and speculation, following which they assert that the "whole of their comments" are the truth.|
1) Stretching credibility to and sometimes beyond the limits.
2) I have never done that.
Finally, obviously there are people who agree with Jantie's "whole package" of comment(s) - and there are people who are more discerning and concerned about them.
Many occurrences in the SV system may easily be considered highly questionable and corrupt, I have pointed out several over the years. There is no doubt that with the social media of today the SV is under greater scrutiny and they are losing numerous members and losing numerous participants in their activities. I see very little change in the future from the SV, because self interest enhanced and supported by self opportunity and self influence, has to be the most corrupting influence on human beings, which very few can resist, and few can stop or give up its various and numerous benefits, and especially its financial benefits. Sad to say the SV and the GSD Show scene World-Wide will definitely continue to decline at an ever increasing rate.
The last man or people standing will applaud themselves for being the top and best in the GSD Show scene, owning the TOP winning GSD, the TOP producing male & female, the top progeny etc etc. BLIND to the fact that such awards are ONLY relevant to the integrity of the system, the numbers competing and very importantly, relevant only to the quality of those dogs competing.
RIP the GSD Show Scene, for many and many more to come.
by Mackenzie on 27 January 2012 - 14:17
It is understandable that the people and their supporters who are involved with all that is not right will try to blacken Jantie’s name. I have found that sometimes the problems in his posts are in the way they are presented. When written in German the translation does not always reflect what he is trying to say. Also, there are times when he writes in English some sentences do not read correctly which means they become misinterpreted by some of the readers. However, when Jantie makes, what in the beginning is really an allegation, his comments do go on to be proved correct ! His interest is in the breed itself. There is no financial gain for him and his actions are not going to catapult him to the top of the popularity poll.
David Payne’s comment here is absolutely correct and was foreseen by Max v Stephanitz from the very beginning. Corruption has always been in the dog world. We have seen it many times when judges make a top or good place for their friends and, in time their friends reciprocate. The situation that we see today is that it is not just the people involved but also the highly inflated prices of the dogs from foreign buyers to satisfy their ego trips. None of them will ever recover the investment that they make in buying these dogs.
I first came to the German scene when Dr Rummel was President and it was shortly after that Hermann Martin became President. At that time I was a believer in the SV and it’s system. Very quickly it became apparent that all was not as I thought it was in the beginning. It was mostly the same people that were getting top honours and hailed as top breeders. Something was wrong. Breeding being what it is it is not possible to be so consistent in producing absolute top dogs year in year out. Then false pedigree’s came into play and these same people were involved and, it is my belief that the President was involved to some degree.
The most surprising thing that came to my mind is that the honest true to the breed Members of the SV did not rise up and demonstrate more. They could see the gene pool getting smaller and they knew that whatever they did as individuals they would not rise to the elevated heights of the top. In the UK when people were not getting their look-in they just went off and formed another club.
Whether you agree, or, disagree with Jantie the breed needs more whistle blowers like him, people who put the breed first and restore the GSD to it’s rightful place. Number 1!
by Oskar1 on 27 January 2012 - 14:49
|I cant help it :|
Here are the dates when Jaguar was X-rayed, this was recorded in the Swedish Breedbook.
2008-07-04 HD Grad B
2008-19-05 ED Grad 2
2012-23-01 ED Grad 3
And yep , there is room for making mistakes when identifying a dog - hm, Jaguar is tatooed AND has a Chip - and yep, there is a Santa Claus and his best friend is Rudolf !
Guess what, the x-ray info was there the entire time.
Now comes someone and buys the son of Jaguar, Harley. This/these persons then decide to have the father of the bought dog to be x -rayed again. The father ?
Ok, I do not understand, but then again, I dont have to understand everything.
Can anyone give me a halfway decent, just halfway, explanation as to why Jaguar was x-rayed again ?
I speculate : Maybe the new owner/s were aware that Harley would not be able to compete under SV rules & regulations, and that Harley would never ever find entry in the SV Breedbook, if his father has bad ellbows ??
Sorry, how bad must I be to even think such a thing !
And David, Jan did not speculate or made alligations, he posted here on PDB with an e-mail from the swedish kennel club in his hands - he even offered the moderator to send it over for verification. Because he did verify it ! All he wanted was to warn breeders, before they have to deal with crap.
Anyhow, McKenzie nice post.
by GSD Admin on 27 January 2012 - 16:27
|I just want to say--I alone made the decision to delete his post--I based that decision on the nature of the post (read like hearsay) and my previous run ins with Jantie. I personally do not like the fact that Jantie took my PRIVATE COMMUNICATIONS (PMs) and posted them on his blog. To me that shows a real lack of respect. I never once gave my permission for Jantie to post my PRIVATE COMMUNICATIONS.|
So, please do not waste your time wondering who did the deleting--Jantie is lucky to still be a member here and had I just banned him for posting my private communications, his stage would be a lot smaller.
Don't blame the SV or David or anyone--I made the decision and it is what it is.
by Dog1 on 27 January 2012 - 18:02
|And a good decision it was. No one complains about posting facts. No one complains things within the SV are being watched.|
The problem with the original post was the information was not accurate, people were named, accused, and conclusions drawn before the facts were reviewed, conclusions about a 3rd party outcome were drawn before the third party had a chance to render a decision based on the facts. That was the problem.
by Slamdunc on 27 January 2012 - 18:10
|I'm just curious did Videx buy the PDB a while back?|
by Oskar1 on 27 January 2012 - 21:07
GSDadmin, with all due respect - because YOU were angry that Jan postet private communication,
you find it reasonable to prevent others to make an informed decision ?
Because of your personal vendetta ?
Excuse me, but this shows a whole lot of respect & dedication towards the breed, does it ?
By the way, hits on his Blog are pretty high up there, furthermore he only posts on certain occasions, such as warning peopel ! I dont think for 1 minute that Jan would shed a tear for beeing banned !
Dog1, everyone is entitelt to his/her opinion, I do respect that. But I believe that one should also be able to explain why.
Jan came forward with the info he had at that time, and as it proves right now, this info was correct. I dont see where Jan used 3rd party info, he had an E-Mail from the Swedish Kennel Club at hand, verified it and warned every one. I truely believe that is more then many others would have done. You know what will happen, a lot of peopel will loose the pedigree of their dog, a lot of grief will make the round. Peopel will sue breeders, breeder will sue stud owners this guy will point his finger at that guy and so on, and on .......
What else did you need ? Let peopel still bring their females to a youthsieger to be mated, make the horror bigger with seeing eyes ?
Anyhow, you all take care.
Hey Slamdunc, it was Jim, right ? How are you, I wish you all the best for the year 2012 - go & get the bad guys !
by GSD Admin on 27 January 2012 - 21:34
|Nope,I was over that PM deal, but it does go to character. I removed the thread/post because it was pre-investigative non-sense, calling out people who may have had no part in this mess.|
I look at history and when someone posts that an SV judge is history and then it is proven that said judge is not history that goes to the source and I am not sure about you Uli but the source means a lot when we talk hearsay.
I have all his posts and while rereading them it is apparent that this was not final and that the son was supposedly getting kicked out of the record books for the faked fathers x-rays. No where in the letter from the SV did it state anything about dogs being taken out of the record book. The letter only dealt with acknowledging that an investigation was begun and not that their were conclusions drawn by the SV at that point and sorry but when Jantie drew his own conclusions--I drew mine.
I have the posts Uli and I would be happy to PM them to you with my explanations.
by Oskar1 on 27 January 2012 - 21:57
we will see what will happen to these dogs - by the book they will have to loose their pedigree, just as the dogs out of Tell did. It is pretty simple. Just read the rules, they are even in english avaible on the SV webside.You dont get it dont you - these are not Jan's conclusions, this will be, or at least has to be the outcome of this fraud.
Pretty pathetic, of course it was not final at the time when Jan postet, how in the world could it have been - Jan was the one making it public to the world !!
Wow, you consider a letter from the official Swedish Breed Club an pre investigative nonsense - to bad it now proofed to be the truth !
Oh well, I will leave at that - by the way I can assure you, I am very capable to draw my own conclusions.
by GSD Admin on 27 January 2012 - 22:18
|Quote from Jantie:|
I am now very happy to announce: "Reinhardt Meyer will NOT judge another day!"
Is Reinhart Meyer still a judge? Is this a conclusion backed by fact? So, after having gone through this very thing a few times with Jantie the admins are very wary of the FACTS as reported by Jantie and I guess when people cry wolf at every corner--people tend to tune them out after many false reports.
I still stand by my decision, a decision made with the facts at hand and past false reports of the sky is falling. Not facts presented weeks after the original posts.
by Slamdunc on 27 January 2012 - 22:27