German Shepherd Dog > Testicles and genetics (20 replies)
Testicles and genetics
by Hutchins on 09 January 2012 - 18:53
|I have always had my own conclusions of this topic, but I want to get opinions and/or experience from others concerning this.|
If a female puppy came from a litter of 4 males and only 1 of those males had BOTH testicles, what are the chances she could produce the same
faults. I do know that it also depends on the male she is bred to.
Just would like to hear what others have to say or what they feel about breeding such a female.
Thanks in advance.
by Two Moons on 09 January 2012 - 19:06
|I would not breed such a female.|
by brynjulf on 09 January 2012 - 19:26
|I agree with Two Moons. The risk is to high.|
by Two Moons on 09 January 2012 - 19:37
|There are more reasons not to breed than there are for breeding.|
If one is to do it right.
There are plenty of correct animals to choose from who have no problems.
Best for the breed, best for everyone.
by Blitzen on 09 January 2012 - 19:38
Bitch's first litter, 3 females, 4 males, 8 descended testicles all males were AKC champions. Repeat of same breeding, 4 males, 2 females. None of the males had both testicles descended. 4 Females from both litters bred, each bred 2, 3 times, all males had both. I'm not sure I'd be so quick to dismiss this female based only on the reason presented here.
by Two Moons on 09 January 2012 - 19:46
That's why we have problems today.
I stand by my statement no matter what your breeding, cattle to gold fish.
by Blitzen on 09 January 2012 - 19:52
|What is why we have problems today?|
by Les Trois Baisers Slovenia on 09 January 2012 - 20:16
|I would like to be a genetic guru to answer your question. We all want to do the best for the breed, no matter, which breed . To do the best for the breed means to improve the health and character, not to double the mistakes and not to breed a dog with health problem, which can get to offsprings.|
If you find out, that the puppies from a certain combination are not ok, then you do not repeat the same combination.
I would say that you should breed your female if she is good enough for breeding.
by Les Trois Baisers Slovenia on 09 January 2012 - 20:22
Female had 4 litters. In 1 litter, problems with testicles. Then they choose another stud dog. Next litter-no problems. The third litter, again another stud male-no problems. the last litter-again another male-no problems. It looks that she produced puppies with testicle problems only in combination with one male.
by Blitzen on 09 January 2012 - 20:25
| There are many things we can do to try to insure a good litter. At least prove the parents in some venue and do all the health checks that apply to the breed. The way the genes pair is random and completely out of our control.|
by jdiaz1791 on 09 January 2012 - 20:30
|I gues everyone is right. Every individual dog is different, you would have to check if she carries the gene, BOTH male and female must carry the no-drop-teste gene to produce it, but chances are she carries it, so like MOONS says, carrier shouldn't be bred as to take that out of the breed, we all must do our part for the betterment of the German Shepherd . Good luck|
by Keith Grossman on 09 January 2012 - 20:35
|"Female had 4 litters. In 1 litter, problems with testicles. Then they choose another stud dog. Next litter-no problems. The third litter, again another stud male-no problems. the last litter-again another male-no problems. It looks that she produced puppies with testicle problems only in combination with one male."|
The problem with this thinking is that after the first litter, you know the female carries the recessive for testical issues. Even though it didn't manifest itself in the subsequent litters, she has now almost certainly passed that genetic information on to some of her offspring.
by Les Trois Baisers Slovenia on 09 January 2012 - 20:40
|If everybody knows everything about genetics than the dog with testicles problem will not be born anymore.|
by GSD2727 on 09 January 2012 - 21:11
|I have to say I wouldnt dismiss such a female either JUST because of that. It would depend on if she was breed worthy herself, what her hip/elbow/health status was, if she was titled, etc...|
I mean seriously, if we stop breeding EVERY SINGLE DOG who has close relatives with ANY problem, we would have no more dogs to breed! While retained testicles are a pain to deal with, and we should try to breed away from it just like any other issue, it really isnt near as bad or serious as many other issues that we could be dealing with! A male with retained testicles can still work and/or make a great pet - just cant be shown or breed. Would rather have that pop up than MegaE, or the host of other health issues that can happen in this breed.
Now if it happens in several generations and you cant seem to get away from it, then ok maybe it is time to rethink what you are breeding. But to not breed an otherwise worthy dog just because she has litterbrothers with missing testicles? I dont agree with that.
However, I would try to find a stud dog who had a good production record for this.
JMO of course
by dantes on 09 January 2012 - 21:12
Come on then, please tell me...why does one ball matter so much??
by brynjulf on 09 January 2012 - 21:51
|It is a fault in the standard. It also can cause some pretty nasty health problems in the male. Hormone issues being the most common. I have heard of cancers but havent been able to find any published study on this topic. And it costs a fortune should you have to fix the dog. A minor surgery can become a major one is a minute.|
by klchablis on 10 January 2012 - 00:17
What you need to know is, why the the testical did not drop.
If the testical did not drop because the cord that is attached to the testical is to short then yes, that is a genetic problem.
If the spermatic cord is long enough and the inguinal ring simply closed before the testical droppped, then it is not a genetic problem.
So on the female pup you are speaking of, you would not know until she is breed and produces males that are affected.
Unless the owner has a vet surgically bring the testicals down into the scrotum you can not say for sure if this is genetic. ( thus seeing if the spermatic cord is long enough )
With most of the pups retaining a testical my guess is that it is genetic in this case.
by Blitzen on 10 January 2012 - 02:03
|Why do you think the ring closing too soon isn't a genetic issue?|
by macrowe1 on 10 January 2012 - 02:16
I would not breed her, too much of a risk. They shouldn't have repeated after the 2nd where no male had descended testicles.
by klchablis on 10 January 2012 - 04:24
The spermatic cord being long eonugh is the genetic component that one should be concerned about.
The inguinal ring is also supposed to close thus functioning properly.
Timing is the problem if the testical has not dropped the ring closes and it can not drop into the scrotum.
Like in a c-section sometimes a pup just is turned or not in the correct position.