German Shepherd Dog > Hips and elbows - give your opinions! (24 replies)
Hips and elbows - give your opinions!
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 03:55
|Had hips and elbows x-rayed today. Intact male, 16 months. Prelims at 6 months were normal. Based on the parents the dog right now has a ZW of 81. These are photographs taken of analog films taped to my plasma TV, the actual quality is better. Also I realized my camera angle was off but didn't feel like setting it up again. The text at the bottom right is what I add when I save these copies on my computer. I was a little disappointed with the hips as far as the coverage in the socket, but the vet said "fair" or maybe "good". I'm new at this OFA/a-stamp thing so maybe my expectations are too high? These are for a-stamps. I know you can't read the ID plate, the vet called the USCA office and they said she could include letterhead with her signature and the required info so all is good.|
by Jenni78 on 07 January 2012 - 04:09
|Legs should be straighter/pulled down more. Heads are nice and round. I think if positioning was correct you'd be A-ok. Knees aren't super clear, but I'm betting that proper, slight rotation would also improve. I added a link; look at the positioning and envision how these would look if you moved the legs around. |
Here is good positioning:
by mirasmom on 07 January 2012 - 04:13
|They look good, this is my girl Bonnie von Ryan she got ofa good,|
your dog has nice round femoral heads, they show no wear what so ever,they are mostly looking at the top part of the ball touching the socket and that looks very snug, no need to worry.
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 04:32
|Thanks guys. I agree they are not the best but I've seen worst (as far as positioning, not anatomy) submitted and do OK. Since it was such a hassle I'm just sending these in. I can always do OFAs at 2 years for another perspective, and my understanding is the USCA office wouldn't pass them on if there were major problems with the x-rays? I'm kind of under a time crunch because I have a big event planned for both my dogs which includes ADs, show, trial, and breed survey so I need all the original documents for both dogs back in time. I don't really care if they are perfect or get top ratings, just want something that's good for work and acceptable for breeding/breed survey.|
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 14:32
|Same dog, 6 months.|
I don't know, should I go back and complain? Then they have do to the whole thing over and charge me another $85?
by TheWildWolf on 07 January 2012 - 15:13
|$85 is all you have to pay for these x-rays? Beats the $700 I am faced with... Wow..|
I would complain, tell them you need perfect or near-perfect positioning. Show them xrays of how it needs to look, explain what the need to do to improve the positioning (pulling legs straight, etc). I have been in an xray room with animals countless times - there is no excuse for not getting the right positioning on a sedated dog!
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 15:21
|I think $85 is what they charge me for one hip film (like that is the purchase price of that piece of developed x-ray), probably more added on for the sedative and vet visit. Yesterday's total was about $200. They have good prices and usually do a really good job so I try to stay on the good side (last time, they didn't charge me for a tooth extraction since I was also getting an x-ray). |
I don't really understand how the x-rays are taken, I've only seen it done once and it didn't seem that big of a deal (and it was by a guy whose over 80 years old, positioning perfect). Do they just not pull hard enough b/c they think they will hurt the dog? I even specified on the note that the positioning had to be good and I wanted the knees in the picture.
by Nans gsd on 07 January 2012 - 16:22
|Its really hard to tell by this x-ray; but if you send this particular x-ray in you will probably get a fair. If it is redone and the knees are turned in and are facing directly forward they could very well be much better, best of luck Nan|
PS: don't read elbows. The 6 month x-ray is much better and I would grade that as a good. I would be really surprised in 10 months if they changed that much. N
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 16:33
|On the breeder's advice I am asking the vet clinic to re-do the hips. Ugh, I'm such a non-confrontational person! But it can't hurt to ask, right? Now that we look back at the prelims they just look SO much better and the *only* difference is positioning. Man I wish Mostosky were closer to me! This would be a no-brainer.|
by trixx on 07 January 2012 - 16:34
|well the hips look like A3 and elbows are A1 to me, that is what i see. hips dont look as nice but the elbows look really good. i do think they will pass.|
by Jenni78 on 07 January 2012 - 17:07
|You don't have to be confrontational. Tell them that the films were refused. Easy as that. Go ahead and roll your eyes if you have to and act like it's a big inconvenience and you're really sorry, if you must. ;-) Think of it this way; you bought these xrays and this service. A lot is riding on them. It's well within your rights to ask for a proper film.|
by TheWildWolf on 07 January 2012 - 17:29
|Can I ask why you wanted them on film and not digital?|
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 17:42
|SV requires film so if I get them done on film I can just send them off right away (have all the other papers ready) rather than have to get them transfered from digital to film. Also I'd rather have the same people do them right and hopefully not have to pay. If I switch clinics again, I'll have to pay again. It would seem in their best interest as well to learn how to position a dog since so many people do OFAs now and it's the same. I've had lots of people ask me where to go in town for good OFAs so whoever does it good gets lots of recommendations from various breed fanciers.|
by Blitzen on 07 January 2012 - 20:46
|Best guess - OFA good to excellent. SV A1. Over half the ball is seated in the socket, the balls are round and there is no evidence whatsoever of remodeling. The norberg angle is right. IMO another xray with the knees rotated inwardly and the femurs parallel is not going to make much, if any difference at all.|
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 21:19
|Really? That certainly balances out the opinions. Well, if they won't re-do the hips for no charge, I'm sending these in. Not going to spend any more money considering whatever they end up being rated, they are still breedable/passable, right? I like getting the opinions on this forum because based on my passed dogs they seem to err on the side of the lower rating, so it's nice to not be surprised or be pleasantly surprised.|
by Jenni78 on 07 January 2012 - 21:25
|They're good hips. If you're just doing SV, I think they're fine. I don't trust OFA one little bit. IME, they have to be PERFECT for OFA to assess them accurately.|
by Blitzen on 07 January 2012 - 21:27
That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it LOL. I honestly don't see any reason for concern, but I've been wrong before (in 2007). All I can say is if this were my dog I'd not rexray him, but it's your decision.
by Jenni78 on 07 January 2012 - 21:30
|I agree with you. They're clean, round, and tight. But- how many xrays have we seen here that were good to fair and OFA said mild or something else due to positioning? The claims are that it's "not their job" to picture what they would look positioned properly. I don't have any experience w/SV and the new protocol, but I would think it's better than OFA and these will pass. But if she can get better ones, I don't think it would hurt.|
by VKGSDs on 07 January 2012 - 23:34
|Maybe not quite perfect for OFA to assess. I have a dog that is assymetrical, he has extra vertebra and those spines that poke out, one side has them and one side doesn't plus the vertebra are attached to the pelvis wrong (at the sacro-illiac part I think it's called) so the entire picture of his pelvic structures is sort of lop-sided. Short of breaking off bones and spurs he is physically impossible to position perfectly, and he got OFA good with films that people here said would not be accepted. Maybe if he *could* be positioned perfectly he'd be OFA Excellent? Who knows but I'm happy with OFA Good! However I'm not breeding him b/c of the other condition. I might breed survey him though since USCA accepts the OFAs.|
by Blitzen on 08 January 2012 - 00:01
|Fair, good, excellent, all normal for breed and age.|