German Shepherd Dog > Who Do You Trust (288 replies)
by Red Sable on 06 January 2012 - 19:14
by aaykay on 06 January 2012 - 21:57
Although my pups are priced across the board for twelve hundred whether new owner intends to breed or spay, and everyone gets full registration,
My kind of breeder ! No strings attached, and relying on the buyer to exercise personal responsibility for what he/she is buying.
When I stated the above, I truly meant it. It was not an insult or a tongue-in-cheek response (don't know if that is what you are referring to, above, where my post was probably misconstrued). I absolutely love your philosophy. As mentioned earlier, I certainly don't like "conditional acquisitions" after paying top dollar for a puppy, where the strings never seem to go away.
I personally treat my pups/dogs with great care, and always go out of my way to make sure that their needs (mental stimulation, exercise, food etc) are well taken care of. I take personal responsibility for them, and will absolutely ensure that they have the best that I can possibly give. So a contract with all kinds of stifling conditions in it, will not be something I would be pleased with. If a genetic condition arises later on (HD etc), I will certainly not allow any kind of breeding to take place (again part of my personal responsibility that I took on when I got the pup/dog).
Your philosophy perfectly ties with my needs.
by joanro on 06 January 2012 - 22:08
|Aaykay, I wasn't referring to you at all. I was referring to the poster calling people idiots on here. Thank you, maybe we can do business some day?|
by aaykay on 06 January 2012 - 22:12
| I did not make any jokes about Hans, wether it be his weight, or country of origin.|
Don't know about you in particular, but as an impartial observer, that thread got very ugly, with a large number of people just jumping on a single person and giving vent to old (but not forgotten) complaints.....literally a lynch-mob, as I mentioned in that other thread. Frenzied sharks taking bites out of a bleeding animal in the ocean.
I personally may not be fat, but I can see how calling someone who has a weight issue as "fat" or "obese" or "ugly" might be treated as an insult, even if it may be "just a fact". The key is to put ourselves in their shoes and see if you want to be treated in the manner in which you are treating someone else (name calling, jokes on their girth, country of origin, making other accusations on their integrity etc) and by that yardstick, that thread should have been tightly moderated and certain users in sore need of a time-out, till order was restored.
by Jenni78 on 06 January 2012 - 22:16
|Aakay seems to understand the difference between cruel jokes pertaining to physical attributes vs. opinions and descriptives assigned to DEEDS and ACTIONS. Praise Jesus. |
It's just an issue of sticking to what is pertinent in order to be credible. Forget being decent or moral; that's obviously asking too much.
by aaykay on 06 January 2012 - 22:20
|Thank you, maybe we can do business some day?|
Sure. I did go through your site, after googling for Charik, and finding it, and I like what I see thus far. Thank you.
by Chaz Reinhold on 06 January 2012 - 22:31
|I think you guys are using a broad brush. Many people spoke out, but only one or two made the comments.|
by Blitzen on 06 January 2012 - 22:40
|aaykay, Just curious. Why don't you buy your next dog from Hans?|
by Red Sable on 06 January 2012 - 22:41
|aakay, I agree with you, that it can be hurtful, and you actually practice what you preach and are always respectful in your posts.|
Wether or not Hans took offence to that little joke, I doubt it, men are not nearly as sensitive on that matter.
by beetree on 06 January 2012 - 23:44
|Unfortunately Jenni, knowing how clever and intelligent and worldly you are, there are just some things you'll never understand.|
by workingdogz on 07 January 2012 - 00:43
Back to the topic, who to trust is tricky, but our experience has been, get out to the dog clubs, see different dogs working in recognized venues/sports, talk to handlers/owners/helpers, watch the dogs, see which ones catch your eye for whatever reason- then ask ask ask tons of questions. Once you decide you know what lines you want, then start breeder shopping. Stick to the breeders that have done SOMETHING with their dogs in a recognized venue, be it AKC, UKC, SchH etc, not just "work" their dogs in their back yards and tell you how great the dogs are, but can't back any claims up with hard results.
Breeders that do something with their dogs in actual venues will be able to tell you why they bred their bitch to a certain male, what they hoped to improve/maintain etc. They can tell you where their dogs excel and where they fall short. Don't rely on stud dog owners, they will say ALL bitches brought to their males are faaaaabulous, thats because they are being paid. It would not serve them well to say the bitch is a spook etc.
Join a dog club, this way, even without a dog, you can learn learn learn. As an example, plenty of people have older retired dogs, usually if the dog is stable, they will let a newbie handle the dog in all three phases for a little bit, ie: track a leg to an article etc to give the newbie an idea of what it's like. Of course, you have to have already proven you are in it for the long haul, not just a "fair weather" trainer
If you can't get to the breeder you like, ie: located in another country, then call them, hire someone to translate if they don't speak english.
Tell them what you want. Tell them you belong to a club already. You don't have to have a translator thats a dog person for this either.
You can research breeders in other countries by simply typing in their dogs names, it will bring up show ratings, titles/score etc.
You can research OFA/A stamp for hips/elbows, DM etc as well. Don't take anyones word! Look it up!
If an American breeder, ask to see AKC paperwork, call AKC to verify litter is registered etc. Call to see if the breeder has been banned at any time.
You can call the SV as well and almost every other foreign registry. Verify verify verify. NEVER take someones word.
One of the best dog conmen/peddlers on here will say "oh you don't trust me" if they say that--RUN!
If the breeder cannot produce paperwork to back up any claims, walk away. No matter how good a deal may seem.
Do NOT buy into excuses as to why a dog cannot be hip/elbow certified, it's not that expensive to certify.
Oh yeah, if they cannot spell German Shepherd, run!
After you do all that, chances are you will not get screwed. But, truth be told, if you are "in" dogs long enough, you'll get burned eventually, it happens to everyone--even the perfect ones
by hunger4justice on 07 January 2012 - 01:00
|Wow...these threads take some strange turns. |
You have to trust YOURSELF. You have to know the dogs and what they have produced and are likely to produce and then assess whether your needs and abilities match what that dog's character and temperament is likely to be. The breeder has nothing to do with that other than they are they one who picked the dogs they wanted to breed to. Of course it helps to have a breeder that is known to stand behind their dogs but better to have dogs that produce well enough that there is nothing that needs to be stood behind.
First, I look for the dogs the breeder is secondary. I don't like limited registration but I understand why some do it, because people get dogs, don't work or title and breed them to anything.
As far as breeders, of course I trust Kathy Wilmoth and her husband, Jennifer at Vom Eisenherz and Melinda at vom Gildaf...BUT it still all comes down to the dogs. There are some dogs some of them might have that might not be my cup of tea and some that might be what I dream of, all produced at the same breeder. I have to decide what I want in a dog. I tell the breeder what exactly I am looking for as far as character already knowing that breeding is likely to produce it. Further, I need to know after the pups are on the ground how they are acting in various situations and how they interact with each other. I would never just pay someone and trust they are going to pick what I want.
Of course if I see they are breeding dogs they know have produced floppy ears/DM/underbites and breed them again, that would make me run for the hills. I do understand that hips and elbows can be bad even if both parents are rates excellent from time to time. But if there is a pattern (one time is enough for certain things) and they are still breeding the same dogs, that is a HUGE red flag. I also want to see the attempt made to produce a better dog than either parent alone or at least replicate do a large extent if the dogs are phenomenal. (Like Tom van't Leefdaalhof) The "Litter Due-Suspect Lines" thread is a perfect example.
by beetree on 07 January 2012 - 01:28
|Let's be clear when you say,
by mollyandjack on 07 January 2012 - 01:35
Just about every time I've gotten screwed over on a deal, it's been because I didn't trust my instincts about someone or the situation. In my case, I take full responsibility for those events. Can't speak for anyone else though Trust your gut instinct.
by beetree on 07 January 2012 - 01:49
|It sure is getting thick around around here, LOL|
by isachev on 07 January 2012 - 15:30
|Who Do You Trust???|
I'm going to have to say Vom Eisenherz as well. Bought 9 GSD's over the years and have never had the support and follow ups from any other breeder. Most sell you the pup and pray nothing goes wrong and I never hear from them. Bought my last 2 from Vom Eisenherz and get emails on a regular basis asking if there is any problems or concerns. Oh, did I mention they are the best quality GSD's I've ever owned. Don't post much here because it just get's to crazy. Had to on this one. That's how satisfied I am with these GSD's.
by La Junta GSD on 08 January 2012 - 03:07
|Take a look at www.germanshepherdvonarizona.com great small breeder great dogs and a even better person to work with|
by Bhaugh on 08 January 2012 - 19:12
|Thanks Slamdunc Ill be Pming you for suggestions. After 4 pages of this thread I would have hoped for more breeders. But I agree with hungerforjustice, things took a turn (and from my perspective) for the worse.|
by Jenni78 on 08 January 2012 - 19:23
|Surely you aren't suggesting that not everyone enjoys the usual suspects chiming in with impertinent nastiness in the middle of what could be a useful thread?! Outrageous! |
There is a thread that took place a while back....can't recall the exact name of it. "Recommended Breeders" or something? I'll look and edit my post if I find it.
by desert dog on 08 January 2012 - 20:22
|I don't think I would be to far off topic to say, who do you trust is a 2 way street. Most threads are based on a newbe or someone asking about getting a pup, or grown dog. It has been my experience buyers are a greater risk to them selves, and the dogs they purchase than the opposite.|
I realize everyone has to start somewhere, but over the years I have refused more sales than I have excepted. I have people always calling, e-mailing, or driving here that want a dog, but are not willing to open a kennel door that I tell them it is ok. They are not comfortable all the time they are on the property.
People seem to read stuff and just decide this is what they want, and dont understand them, then after a few months when problems start happening they are lost. the nibbling begins to be little harder bites, sharp teeth begin to get bigger, pup gets stronger, the next thing you know the pup was a poor bred dog.
Breeders should always be truthfull, and be ethical and open to all questions about there dogs, but at the same time prospective buyers should at the minimum be honest to themselves and admit maybe what I think I want I am not ready for the responsibility of raising, training and caring for a working dog , no matter what the temperment. How many times on here do you see people getting pups that within a few months can't even handle.
I'm not putting anyone down, I just think it's fair to see both sides of transaction. And I would never recommend someone who has no experience to buy a dog from anyone. Go help or volunteer some time working some of these dogs and be around them awile. Then you will be able to see what you are capable of having a good relationship with and by that time you will know a few things about you and also some of the differences in these dogs.