German Shepherd Dog > BAD BEHAVIOR (37 replies)
by mentayflor on 04 January 2012 - 04:34
|dear friends, I first went for a walk with Fidu, 3 and half months, no one passes near us, although is obvious he is a puppy, people opted to cross the street before. Have you the same problem?|
I mafraid I will not be able to take Fidu out for a walk any more very soon, he barked every dog he saw, and although he ignored people who were walking, he barked at people who were stood. The walk was a completely desaster.
The breder told me that he came from docile line, beacuse of his grandfather (imported), who give docil descendants, but Fidu has a strong hanting inctint he hunt insect, bird and my other pets at home he use to take them of their necks o head and drag them for all the garden, so that I put him a leash very often, then he bites the leash and take to me. However he is very docile with me, I m very estrict I have authority enough and he love me and respect me. But he is dominant and self confident with everybody and everywhere. I am afraid I could not take Fidu out for a wolk any more beacuse of his bad behavior. The vet warned me. What do you think about my problem?, What would you do if you had Fidu? He is my first GSD. Please I need advises.
Sorry for my english.
by EchoEcho on 04 January 2012 - 06:58
|Well I am no professional trainer however, I think not taking him on a walk is pretty much the worst thing you could do for him. You need to consult a trainer familiar with GSDs in your area.|
by miperry on 04 January 2012 - 07:09
Hi, we just got a GSD puppy few days ago, he is also 3.5 months. He is
very suspicious of strangers too, people want to pet a puppy but if
they approach too fast, he backs off and will have none of it. He is
also not very fond of other dogs. We started working on it already and
he seems too be getting better already after couple of days. I am not
a professional trainer, but here is what I would suggest
- try to socialize him more - ask your friends to come over, and approach
him gently, ask them to give him treats that he likes or just pieces
of his food. GSD are suspicious of strangers by nature, but you can
ease it in a bit if you start now. Also if people approach on the
street, ask them to do it slowly and gently and let him smell them
first. People tend to jump with excitement when they see a puppy and
it doesnt' help of course ;)
- when you are at home and he is at a normal level of behavior see if
you can teach him "no" command. I actually use a "shusshing" sound,
which works wonders if he tries to pick something from the floor or to
stop any unwanted behavior. Its better for fix this command at home,
because on the street when is already excited it will be more
difficult to teach, better if he is familiar with it already.
For now, when I see a dog approaching I stop and sit him down and let
another dog pass. Relax the leash, but observe him very carefully.
If I see he is just starting to get excited I
"shush" him immediately. Sniffing the air is ok, but growling is no.
By now is already ok and letting the other dog pass without getting worried or
growling or charging. Then just pet him very gently and go on your
Yesterday at the vet since we had to be in the room with other dogs I
just distracted him with the bone and then he just relaxed totally and
actually slept on the floor with other dogs sitting around.
Hope this helps, maybe someone can suggest something else.
by Two Moons on 04 January 2012 - 07:31
|Start serious obedience and socializing, no nonsense.|
Sent you a PM.
by yellowrose of Texas on 04 January 2012 - 08:15
| Sorry but I have never in my born days had one of my gsd pups ever be afraid or skiddish of any strangers or react in any manner you describe|
That is a bad myth...gsd are not just naturally suspicious of strangers...That is the description of a nerve bag or a pup with a genetic problem
Or some breed I know nothing about..sorry but you should have investigated your pup before you purchased it..There are tests for buying a pup and what the pup should do .
Many breedings of lines not compatible can produce pups that have the skiddish trait. I am not familiar with them.
Go back to your breeder, or you have days of hard work and may never get it out of the pup. What does your pedigree look like?
Maybe the tv trainer can help you . There is dog accupuncture and there is a nerve muscle treatment that makes a dog forget bad stimulation which is done by a dog chirophracter..That removes the remembrance from the nerves and muscles that make a dog skiddish or reluctant to approach someone strange or unknown..
Babying or softly petting him and waltzing around his behaviour is not how to train a german shepherd pup of 3. 5 mos. BUild up his interest with prey and use toys to excite him into commands and no is used for something that is dangerous or not wanted.
He needs a focus and he needs his play drive built up not stopped.
Reward him when he performs correctly without using no. USe his drive to change his ways of thinking and his mind set. Negative no is not a positive reinforcement.
What ever his name is...he is advertised on this page. Ceasar Milan has videos and books
Schutzhund training would not do good for a pup who is suspicious of approach so a trainer of just obedience for home could help. Socializing daily with kids and off of your property will help to some degree..
by Red Sable on 04 January 2012 - 11:32
|"Sorry but I have never in my born days had one of my gsd pups ever be afraid or skiddish of any strangers or react in any manner you describe|
That is a bad myth...gsd are not just naturally suspicious of strangers...That is the description of a nerve bag or a pup with a genetic problem"
It is in the standard, wary of strangers. EVERY PUP I've had has been nervous of strangers at some point and time. Some more than others, and yes, some were sharp, but honestly I don't mind it.
My LSC was VERY friendly up until a year old, and is actually now the one I have to watch the most as she has taken a hate on to men, not totally unprovoked, but is definitely more aggressive than my others.
All the dogs settle as soon as they hear me talk to the stranger in a friendly voice.
I know many want a friendly welcoming dog, not me so much as we have been robbed of tools twice and live in the country.
by Rass on 04 January 2012 - 12:51
|NOT dealing with this is the worse thing you can do. Take him out more. If you do not like the behavior, get between him and whatever he is barking and face YOUR dog and step into his space.. get him to back up a bit (one step). Then keep yourself between him and whatever/whoever he is barking at to let him know it is YOU who are dealing with this and NOT him. |
Another thing you can do is to have treats on you and redirect your dog's attention to YOU when you see a person standing or other dogs. This will help your dog to learn he needs to pay attention to you and that you are the source of good things and whatever is out there is not as important to pay attention to as you.
If he is fearful (backs away) or siTTish around strangers, then you need to make interaction with strangers positive IF you want him to interact with people. Typically this is done with food.. you feed your dog as the person he does not know approaches. I would NOT let strangers feed him.
The other part of this is that if you are successful you may end up with a dog that rarely barks at people or anything else. That may not be what you want either.
I would get a toy.. a tug or other toy.. and get him interested in that. Do not let him play with this particular toy alone. He only gets to play with it if you are involved in the game. If you can build interest and drive for the toy you can often redirect the dog to the toy when he is paying attention to things you do not what him to pay attention to or chase.
by yellowrose of Texas on 04 January 2012 - 21:34
What he described is not Wary of strangers..
His description is way off of any kind of proper behaviour for a 3.5 mos old shepherd of proper behaviour
Backing up " and wanting nothing to do with people or other dogs etc.,..
is not a good trait at all..
Has nothing to do with wary...wary is a Trait to determine good or bad in approaching item or persons coming toward a dog...
If just approaching a gsd pup makes him back up and hide behind his owner...that is not what the standard of any working dog has in it.
The weaker of pups in a litter may run or hide behind their owner or handler but not any pup I have ever evalutated.
I am sure that there are many out there. Proper way for any pup to approach is with ears up, make a good stand firmly in dirt , look directly at the approaching and either wag tail or alert even at 3.6 mos old..
If it runs....naughty naughty...deal with it.
and someone above me did ..
Not even a one yr old will run...yes as your pup gets to 1 yrs old, they do go thru a period of "do I or DO I NOT, when approaching, but you do not want any pup to turn tail and back up . No reason for them too. A young gsd pup will usually rely on his master to say GOOD BOY , all is ok or friend or some key word , if owner sees his pup is alerting to a problem and believe me , the gsd is first on the block to tell you ,,,we have a problem here DAD>, but this is where confidence of the breed comes in and the owner immediately REASSURES the pup or gsd,,by firm patting on side, signalling :ALL IS OK , and give the command to sitz or Blib, as the article or person approaches.
Part of the B is how your dog reacts to Opening an Umbrella..and approching by strangers in a circle..
Confidence in the pup and what he feels and how he acts to any stranger or any new territory should be inquisitive not shy nor with fear..
That is where FEAR BITING comes from
just what the op describes is exactly where Fear BITING comes from
by Red Sable on 04 January 2012 - 21:46
|I agree with what you are describing, just not the statement :gsd are not just naturally suspicious of strangers...|
The OP said: "But he is dominant and self confident with everybody and everywhere" that to me does not describe a skittish dog ( I have had one). He is barking at strangers, but he is only 3 months old AND it was his first walk! Personally, I think more socialization will solve this. The worst thing the OP could do, would be to quit taking him for walks.
by yellowrose of Texas on 04 January 2012 - 21:55
My last posting sentence above was:
Socializing daily with kids and off of your property will help to some degree..
I re- read his post and I see nothing that says he loves everybody and is confident to anyone. He took him to vet and used a bone to distract him (good) but dont forget the bone...and he laid on floor ....peacefully...) good)but no one approached him ??
He describes two different situations and I certainly would hope he barks at strangers...but hiding behind and backing up is not good sign. Dogs that back up usually bark furiously at everything that moves...not good either...he has a problem or he would not have posted. I guess????
I am addressing the second poster not the first one: as he gave advice to first poster, I think. Here is the poster I am addressing as he ask for advice too after he gave the first poster his advice??????
I see a pup who is not handling things well...so he needs to handle it correctly or it will revert itself.
no matter first , second or 300 walks ..pups do not hide behind or back up as a first meeting.
If yours did it , then I am surprised, not saying any dog cannot do it a few times, but I surmised by posting it here , he has a real problem ,,IF he is all healed good deal..I won't waste time worrying about fear biting..
by mentayflor on 05 January 2012 - 00:45
|My dear friends, Echoecho, miperry, twomoons, Yellowrose, Red sable, and Rass, first of all I want to thanks everybody for your advices. I read all messages and I tried put them into practice.|
In the morning Fidu tried to steal my little doggy her bone and I hear them fighting, it was the first time he did it, I cried loudly and they stopped fighting whe I arrived he had spiky hairs then I put him into the yard as a punishment. Later I took him for a walk and when i was closing the door he bit a dog outside, we entered and tied him in the yard for a while, and we went out again. He didn't bark any person, just the others dogs, but many of them provoked him. Later came a friend of mine who he didn't know and he was a good boy in general, but he began to bark at her, so I ask my friend she play with the ball and Fidu became very friendly with her.
I m showing you some up to date photos, he is with me, they were took today exept the one he is sat. Thanks again.
by Red Sable on 05 January 2012 - 01:18
Hi mentaflor, your puppy is very normal at least from the GSD's I've had.
by yellowrose of Texas on 05 January 2012 - 01:33
YOU pup sounds normal and he is forging forward and is gorgeous also.
He is acting like a normal gsd with some prey..
You are the first poster which I did not address, as my post was towards the other poster who gave you some advice, which was ok.
Do not scold, use prey and toys and get him away from the problem..turn the other way, get away from any other dog he is in a scuff with..sometime we have to only play with one dog at a time when they are pups like he is
He has high prey and is seems to be intense on SHOWING everyone he is dominant..that is good..
He just needs lots of play , do not yell at him, use toys and FOOD to get his FOCUS on you...You are who he is to look at...if he starts growling or barking at other dogs,, immediately show food get his attention and go the other way briefly taking him out of the what ever or whoever he is trying to bite or grab.
Use obedience for 10 minutes at a time...then play with toys...use toys for obedience he cannot play with..put them up..
they are obedience toys..using food for reward.
HE is gorgeous ...and is perfectly normal...be sure to keep him on a leash out in public and make sure he has shots and be careful about other dogs in public..I do not let people pet or give food or have contact when puppies..
My instructions about backing up and not approaching was to the other poster under your first post but it still can be of help for you to understand ,,obedience and control is ok...but when playing let pup be puppy..if he tries to bite you in play ,,,give toys or tugs or rags with knots in them taking away the urge to bite you or another ....always use the toy for instruction and use it to positively get the dogs attention rather than no or yelling. Yelling is of no good. DOGS don't respond to yelling,,unless they are in trial and you have to yell to make sure the dog hears the correct command in bite work or trialing..
Late after he is 1yr old, and doesnt mind, you can use force, and loud commands..but after he is given time to mature, you must do command , correction and reward...in that order...
two corrections , then use some kind of quick yank of leash, or some quick grab of collar and place dog quickly back beside you and redo what ever he did wrong and hopefully he got his ears full and his body told to not do something..Using force after he refuses to listen is necessary;.. Seek a good trainer if he is so high drive he won't listen to you and the trainer can train you...first...all of us had to be trained first..when we were new in this breed.
by mentayflor on 05 January 2012 - 01:45
|Thanks for you message Redsable, you are right he dont bark because a skittish dog but he is jelous and dominant, i think. When I first visited the breder i wanted to buy a couple of sables, but there were not male sables, so I bought Fidu because He seemed to be friendly as the other dogs included his father, and I asked the breeder for keeping a female sable. But now I want to educate Fidu first, I prefer to wait resolve the problem with Fidu.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 05 January 2012 - 01:56
MY instructions were not to you ....they were to the skiddish dog who backed up...who gave you advice after your first post.
Made this thread a little confusing..no way I wanted you to take advice from another whose pup did not fit to your pup
I just neglected to address it to Miperry//// It kinda overshadowed yours as I saw immediated fault there...
read the post below your pictures.
You are correct to learn with the first one and most breeders will tell you...ruin the first one and learn on that one and then the second one is easier.
by Red Sable on 05 January 2012 - 01:59
|Hi mentaflor, I do think he barks at this age because he fearful, but his confidence will grow as he gets used to everything around him, including new sites, sounds, people and dogs (from a distance).|
He has what I call some defence in him, which will make him a good 'alert' dog and more suspicious of strangers and therefore more watchful. Which, is probably why you got a German Shepherd, right?
Just please remember to socialize the heck out of him, if will make him a better dog. :)
All the best!
by mentayflor on 05 January 2012 - 02:34
|Hi Yellowrose, Dont worry everything are clear now, I misunderstood you. I wont shout at Fidu any more, But some time ago I had to give him a jerk with the collar because he was about to kill my pets. I had to be rude there was not other option, I called the trainer but he couldnt come because he works far away my home so that I had to resolve it somehow, but i prefer not to use force. When he is barking other dog he dont pay me atention, he show all his teeth, and i am afraid i will not be able to handle him when he grow.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 05 January 2012 - 03:19
Re read my posts to you..'yes you must use dominant control....use commands and play toys and food...when he doesnt obey...USE FORCE...not yelling...
if he doesn't respond to first correction...get harder...YES, you must use force.
sorry but you have a dominant dog.
try using all the positive ways..it is hard to think oh use the toy...turn the other way...get happy and act like a clown....why???to attract your dogs attention away from the other dogs or people or thing he is looking at....use food reward not as a bribe..
Yelling is the only thing you have to overcome....you must be ALPHA>..the BOSS>..if you do not now,,yes he will show teeth and bite later when not suppose to.
You are doing it , just try to remember...use toys, tugs, rags,,,and food in tiny pieces to reward him..
he will learn..
If he refuses to do it the first or second time....PUT HIM IN HIS KENNEL..IF you do not crate , then get one and use it
NOt AS A PUNISHMENT...BUT HE NEEDS SHUT down time...if he is not obeying put in kennel, walk away do your chores, watch tv , do your things..later pick up where you left off..take out as normal routines but be ready to use toys and keep him away from bad things..he does by acting funny , loud silly things with a toy in your hand ..let him play , throw , fetch and teach him new things....keep him busy...but make him mind...
It is ok to yank his collar and his leash and to tell him he is doing wrong..put your finger on his no\se and make him look at your face..use leash and happiness to train him..make him like you but be dominant..he will do it on your time, your space and when and where you want him to...reward much...and praise him then put in kennel and let him have quiet time.
tHE REASON FOR THE CRATE AT TIMES , when you are not playing is for his safety and to learn he cannot just do anything he wants...Dogs get mad and will act out after you correct them like tear up your shoes , you magazine,etc,,,so the crate makes them safe and know you love him and will be back to get him out or HER...and cannot destroy or do bad things when you are not looking..just like a human child...but we cannot cage our kids....lol but we do send them to rooms and or Time out...which is same kind of obedience.
by miperry on 05 January 2012 - 07:25
Ok, maybe I didn't express myself correctly - he isn't running away from strangers. He will come and sniff the person who approached him. He is very curious about everything. He just doesn't like when people try to touch him and pet him. He doesnt hide behind me, just sort of moves away a bit from the person, but then goes around his business, comes back again to sniff. He doesn't seem stressed or tail between his legs.
Of course I don't want him to jump in happy bliss everytime someone calls him, but he just needs to allow people to touch him gently, because obviously we will face situations in the future when it's nessesary - vet, etc.
At the vet, after he relaxed, the nurse approached him and he stayed calm just moved his head away when she tried to touch him after he sniffed her. So I think he just needs more socializing. Before he came to us the only person he new was his breeder (yes, I know, breeder should have socialized him, but well, he didnd't, so it's up to us to strat from scratch, but I don't see a huge problem or reason to panic. He is already half way there. Even with other dogs he is doing much better. So it's just a matter of time and patience.
by Stumpywop on 05 January 2012 - 10:29
I can't better the advice you've already been given so I won't waste anyone's time by trying.
I just wanted to say that a skittish dog can be worked with and can become naturally accepting of strange situations.
My oldest GSD, Zane is now just 4 years old. As a young dog he was incredibly skittish. It took me about 18 months altogether of extremely hard work (bearing in mind I also had other dogs at home to work with too) each and every day.
He is now used as a stooge dog for others who have problems with other dogs and I take him into primary schools (for children aged 4-11 years for those not in the UK) to teach children how to remain safe around dogs.
Zane is so chilled out he's float down the street instead of using his feet if he could. Although I worked with him, it's because of hte dog he is that I've been able to achieve this level of clamness with him and I'm very proud of him. He will still alert me to something he's not happy about but sill stand next to me to do it. He doesn't back off nor does he try to hide behind my legs.
You will also have to make sure you don't inadvertently reinforce the unwanted behaviours by trying to reassure the dog whilst he's behaving inappropriately. Can be difficult but if you think every time you speak or touch him, you should't run into ny problems.
Also, he shouldn't be dominant at aby ages, certainly not at 3.5 months. Although he should be confident. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post so please accept my apologies if I've got the wrong idea.
Something that does concern me though - you have stated that he bit another dog when you were going out. Was your pup not on a leash/lead? did another dog stray onto yourproperty? How did this dog bite come about? Was is just a nip or a full on bite? Was it your own bitch he bit or was it someone else's dog he bit?
He clearly enjoys playing and will focus on you. If you work at that as well as what others have suggested I think you'll see an imrpovement in a few short weeks.
Good luck and try to enjoy your pup for who he is.