German Shepherd Dog > Misleading ad (38 replies)
by frankm205 on 03 January 2012 - 14:02
There is a dog that I purchased directly from the breeder in Czech. There is a broker that has the dog advertised on his web site and sold banner across it, even though he never saw this dog.
Does this make you think that he the broker actually sold this dog?
Does it make you think that he has or had the dog in his kennel?
Can this be considered a misleading ad?
Would love to know your thoughts
by Jenni78 on 03 January 2012 - 14:12
|Was the seller advertising the dog for sale before you bought it? If so, and it was to be a brokered deal, like so many import dogs I see are, then to me, putting a "sold" banner over the dog is just a quick and easy way to tell people that dog isn't available, so don't call about him. I wouldn't expect that a broker necessarily ever saw the dog, let alone had it in his/her kennel. I guess if you are brand new to dogs, you might assume a broker/breeder would own all those dogs (I got a phone call to that effect this week...pretty funny to be accused of "using" a dog for stud that I didn't own! LOL) but even someone a tiny bit seasoned would know not to assume any dog is on any certain property without asking.|
I used a "broker" once and he never saw my dog.
Why? What's the issue?
by cphudson on 03 January 2012 - 14:19
|I remember seeing Lobos listed for sale he is a really nice looking dog. How do you like him?|
My female I purchased through Jinopo is also listed as sold on Alphine's site. Since they are partners I don't find this misleading.
But I was surprised to see my dog lisited there months after she was purchased listed as sold. Maybe they do this because some people only check on Alphine's site so they have to keep them up to date on the dogs that got sold ???
by Slamdunc on 03 January 2012 - 14:22
|I think the issue is that the dog was bought directly and the broker was never used and never had the dog. If I remember the situation correctly, Frank has asked that the dog be removed from the website since the broker did not sell the dog or have the dog. The details are on a thread on the PDB, the broker then said the dog was not breeding quality and only good to breed to Franks' dogs and not outside females??????? Which is very bizarre to me, as the dog was being sold as a "stud" dog on the brokers website, until Frank bought the dog direct with out the broker, then the "quality" of the dog diminished according to the broker.|
I'm sure they can provide more details or you can find the other thread.
by Jenni78 on 03 January 2012 - 14:25
|Ah. I didn't look at who posted it, I only read the post. Nevermind.|
by Slamdunc on 03 January 2012 - 14:28
That is the first thing you check. You should know better.
by frankm205 on 03 January 2012 - 14:45
|Didn't put this up to slam Hans.I think we all know well enough about their practices. There are also other brokers who post dogs to their web site that they do not own, never saw or tested, yet advertise what great dogs they are. How does the novice person know that the dealer is selling something they know nothing of? What steps can be taken so that the novice can distinguish between who is honestly selling a dog they have in their kennel and a broker who is just listing other dogs they know nothing about. This question is for those of you who have imported more than one or 2 dogs and are continuing to seek reputable brokers/breeders. Not just the one dog owner who breeds once a year and is not selling police or sport dogs. |
Again this is not to slam Hans.
by joanro on 03 January 2012 - 15:04
|I think it's typical of hans' shady business practices. Just like when he put a stud dog, which jiri sold, up on his(hans') site under the heading alpinek9 current studs and " our dogs" immediately after jiri removed the dog from his own site. Hans never used the stud or owned it and has a note stating "this dog is no longer in our possession anymore ", the dog NEVER EVER was in his possession. He just has a problem with being truthful. Another questionable practice of his is having dogs' import papers sent to him so that he(Hans) can make copies. Why should Hans need copies of a dog's import papers when he doesn't own it or did not buy it?????? That's all that's needed to send for AKC registration, and it could be a little more than disconcerting knowing that anyone else has access to your dog's import documents.|
by frankm205 on 03 January 2012 - 15:24
Ar is an awsome dog. He really likes to work and has great character. Just an all around nice dog and I'm happy to have him.
by Jenni78 on 03 January 2012 - 16:42
|Sometimes I don't look. I don't think that's a bad thing, either. It makes you less likely to be biased when answering. ;-)|
But I don't think I'm allowed to participate any longer anyhow, as Frank specifically stated that this question is only for people who import dogs regularly and are continuing to seek reputable brokers, which I am not. I have what I need and don't have an immediate need to go outside what I already have access to. So, I don't qualify, even if I meet the other half of the criteria.
I don't understand why someone must import large quantities to have an opinion on this, but it's his thread, not mine.
by frankm205 on 03 January 2012 - 17:55
Basically the thread was meant to get other importers thoughts on how to recognize shady advertising. Some folks import quite a few dogs for police, PP, and other markets and have more experience to share.You can have your opinion and feel free to post it here. Please, let us know of your importing experience that pertains to this topic so maybe we can learn from your knowledge.
by dantes on 06 January 2012 - 09:13
|Regardless of whether the dog was on the possession of a broker, I feel that if you, as the current owner, want the dog removed, then it should be removed. There could be all kinds of reasons that a new owner might want a dog removed. This sort of practice is very common in business. It is not illegal or immoral, in my opinion, but it can be a little misleading.|
by duke1965 on 06 January 2012 - 09:55
|frank , Ill paint one simple picture for you about this|
Im breeder , and sometimes help somebody to purchase dog that is not from my own breeding , so in that perspective I am also broker , and can say Im honest and truthfull , however , within the boundries of quality and pricing , that many people search for dogs it is IMPOSSIBLE to find the amount of quality ,healthy dogs , that is wanted , and therefore it is easy for people with less than noble intentions to sell all available on 4 legs
if I sell a(any)dog , it will be tested and fully xrayed by me before purchase , so at least I know what Im dealing with
I had multiple inquiries for dogs that I can easily get dogs for , but will not do it because available dogs are not good enough or to good to be truth( see Bhall thread)
the long lists of dogs available on some brokers websites , are often not in their posession and they can only tell about the dogs what is told to them , so they are not always to blame , as they will be screwed sometimes as well
I agree that a dog listed for sale as perfect , and after being sold by someone else , being written of as not good enough makes you wonder
by workingdogz on 06 January 2012 - 10:30
"the long lists of dogs available on some brokers websites , are often not in their posession and they can only tell about the dogs what is told to them ,
so they are not always to blame , as they will be screwed sometimes as well"
Thats the glory of being a "broker", you have to (or at least should!) take responsibility for the product you are selling.
If you want to add in your "fee" to broker the deal, then you will have to "work" for you money,
why else is the buyer paying you? If they have to go though you to purchase the dog, you better know what you are selling.
Otherwise it's is just smarter to find someone like Duke who seems to have some morals and ethics,
and pay him a "finders fee" to find you the dog you want.
As Duke mentions though, the buyer in all fairness, must be realistic in what is available in his/her budget.
When someone makes their livlihood from selling dogs and puppies in -any- breed,
it usually becomes easier and easier to let things "slide" in the quality of what you sell,
as you -need- to sell in order to keep a roof over your head etc.
Then you end up with the "used car salesman" type slicksters.
by duke1965 on 06 January 2012 - 10:43
|might add to that there are also breeders who get more inquiries for pups than they normally have , and than buy several extra females to supply the demand ,|
as it is hard enough to get few very good producing females , it is impossible to buy an extra 4 or 5 in few months
by frankm205 on 06 January 2012 - 13:13
|I don't know I just find it perhaps unethical to describe a dog to someone in detail and never see the dog. Then when you ask questions about breeding with different lines etc... he has to call over to his partner to get you answers. I had another broker call me from Slovakia to tell me some guy in CO. had his dogs on his website for sale , what can he do about it. I guess really nothing???|
by workingdogz on 06 January 2012 - 13:22
|That's where watermarking photos & using same sort of concept with any videos works to help prevent someone else from representing your dog as 'theirs'. Also using the dogs registered name helps, as people can google the name to locate the dog. Advertising dogs they don't own/know is not uncommon, But it's definatley a risk to the broker if they have never put eyes or hands on the actual dog. Of course an even bigger risk to the buyer, but that's why people have to take some responsibility and do some Homework on their own too. A lot of times people get taken by a deal that seems to good to be true.|
by desert dog on 06 January 2012 - 15:05
I don't think anything is deceptive about it. In fact when a dog called Feja was sold the new owner didn't put much info on the dog other than what I already knew. After a few months I was still researching the dog and was able to go back and find info on the previous website after the dog was sold. To me I could care less who sold it, but more importantly, did they have access to information.
by Red Sable on 06 January 2012 - 16:33
|All it takes for us buyers to do our homework is to get screwed once. Unfortunately it seems it has to be that way.|
Good judgment comes from bad experience ... and most of that comes from bad judgment...
by Jenni78 on 06 January 2012 - 19:56
|Hank, good post. Too bad you had to make that post and not everyone just has that much common sense. I have also never been screwed on a dog. Research, research, research. Ask people you trust. Most importantly TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for your own actions (or inactions) and make sure you have crossed your T's and dotted your I's and double-checked everything that is important to you. |
I also don't see a big deal about photos of a dog when it's common knowledge that it was available to brokers. Heck, people have pictures of me and my dog(s) (well, they scratched me out after the last time I spoke the truth, lol) on their site and I would never ever endorse them. But, they have a right to the photos because of their previous interest in the dog and I think it's really petty and grandiose to try and take that away. If you ever had interest or had/have related dogs, I think it's fair to keep the dog listed for reference. It helps everyone, really, when you can do that research. I actually like it because I can follow a dog and have that many more people to ask questions about it. JMO.