German Shepherd Dog > Food/Supplement Question (14 replies)
by chevl66 on 30 December 2011 - 23:43
The reason why I'm asking this is because of my breeders "guarantee".
by mfh27 on 31 December 2011 - 00:35
|How will the breeder know if you feed the required vitamins or not?|
by Jenni78 on 31 December 2011 - 00:44
|What is it?|
I'd be hard pressed to take a vet's opinion over a WELL-INFORMED breeder very often, as typical vets are not known for their nutrition expertise. OTOH, I question any breeder who insists on a certain supplement in order to guarantee something, though a contract is a contract and I also disagree with going back on your word or the terms of a contract. Whether it's necessary or not, you agreed and signed.
What does the contract say about it?
by GSD2727 on 31 December 2011 - 01:27
|I agree with Jenni, most vets know very little about nutrition. |
As for the breeder requring you to feed a certain way...I do not necessarily agree with it. I feed raw and feel very strongly about that way of feeding. I recommend it to my puppy buyers and try to provide a lot of info and explain WHY I feel it is best, but I do not require it or make it a stipulation for my warranty. I think it is unrealistic, as you seen someone else here already said "how would the breeder know". I would rather puppy buyers be able to be honest with me and not have to lie or hide things from me. However, with that being said, I do understand why some breeders do it.
Maybe speak with the breeder about this? Ask them WHY they want you to feed the supplement, what the reasoning is, ask if they have info that you can read up on about it? Maybe once you do a bit of research it will make sense to you? I would assume if they believe in it strong enough they have done their homework... but then again I have seen breeders recommend some diets that make me cringe.
If the breeder is dead set on standing by what is stated in the contract and you decide you do not want to give it to your dog - IMO you should not lie, but tell the truth and just accept that your guarantee is void. I am assuming you knew this before you bought the pup and was ok with it then?
What food are you feeding? and what supplement is it?
by Red Sable on 31 December 2011 - 01:35
|Is the supplement NuVet Plus?|
by aaykay on 31 December 2011 - 02:11
|I personally am not in favor of supplements either. As long as they are eating a balanced diet (meat, bones, organ meat etc in the appropriate quantities), that should give them all they need. Nutrition obtained from food is more "bio available" (don't know where I read about this term but it makes sense to me), as opposed to the vitamins etc from supplements.|
by chevl66 on 31 December 2011 - 02:21
|I am feeding him Taste of the Wild and Holistic Select - I mix these together, add a little Force food to that and salmon oil.|
Yes, I use NuVet Plus vitamins.
I've had 2 vets tell me I shouldn't need to supplement with the vitamins with the diet I am feeding my dog, that too much of certain vitamins can harm him. I went for a second opinion because I wanted to be sure.
I'm thinking I should do blood work, the send it to the breeder if something shows high to justify taking him off of the vitamin. I would hate to cause him any problems because of it.
Unfortunately, when I had another (health) problem with my dog, the breeder was not very receptive, stating he has NEVER had any health problems with any of his animals. I still sent the vet records to the breeder.
My contract requires the vitamins and holistic food. Although the breeder doesn't use either of these products at the kennel either on personal pets or dogs that were bred.
by GSD2727 on 31 December 2011 - 02:35
|Chev, that is interesting that the breeder requires you to feed something that they do not use themself?!? How odd. Did they every say why they require it? or why they dont use it themselves?|
What happens if you do not feed this? The guarantee is void?
by Nans gsd on 31 December 2011 - 02:49
|Well in your case I have to say I feel your vet is right. I think it is WAY TOO MUCH supplements for your puppy. I would talk to your breeder immediately and do not wait on this. On the flip side, when I was feeding a puppy raw balanced diet the vet had a fit and said RAW was for cats and that it was not meant to be for dogs at all. SO, a good diet with force added does not need ANY supplements except maybe salmon oil given with a Vit E. What is not in the kibble should be in the Force THK diet and you ARE probably feeding too much supplement which makes puppies grow too fast and can over load the kidneys/liver. Best of luck Nan|
by Emoore on 31 December 2011 - 04:07
|NuVet is like Herbalife and Mary Kay. Not necessarily bad products but anyone who suggests you use them, is making money off them. Your breeder gets a commission from every bottle of NuVet that you buy, which is why he/she wants you to give it and how he/she knows if you're buying it or not.|
by NigerDeltaMann on 31 December 2011 - 07:15
|Real "capitalist breeders". Who said we ain't make no money breeding GSDs? . . . profit from puppies, food n even dog's supplements, what a "biz" even we claim "hobby, just to improve". Common sense has it that you don't feed kibbles high in nutrition and also give supplement, except your gsd is a "guinea pig" or somebody's saying so, or masking an ailment.|
by Red Sable on 31 December 2011 - 11:23
|Is that right Emoore? Wow, isn't that just lovely. NOT. |
I only know one breeder that makes you sign in the contract for Nuvet, and she went to breeding strictly LSC, as there is more money in it. I'd never buy a pup from her.
by chevl66 on 31 December 2011 - 18:22
|That was going to be my response, the breeder makes money off of it because they get a commission for each bottle sold. I'm assuming that's why it's in the contract. But I CAN buy it without going through the breeder.|
I of course was not aware the breeders own dogs weren't using the product until after I had purchased the dog and was all set up with food and supplements. Again, I should have done a lot more research on this breeder before even thinking about buying a dog from them.
by chevl66 on 02 January 2012 - 18:29
|For further info: Now I understand why my 6 month old dog is 70 pounds. I'm guessing the over-supplementing has a lot to do with this.|
The breeder was also trying to get me to buy all my food/products through them, wasn't happy when I told him I could get the same products for less and would be going that route.
I wish I was more informed before choosing a breeder, but I have a gorgeous dog, it's just all the dishonesty (or not being up-front about motives) that makes me upset. I recently learned one of the great "studs" he uses is not even 2 years old and I am aware of 5 litters from this one dog. I'm guessing there are more. I was given all the right answers to my questions - how often do you breed this female (every other year), etc. unfortunately it turned out to be every heat cycle. I wasn't involved a lot prior to purchasing my own puppy, which is why I didn't see a lot of the discrepancies. I guess my advice to new puppy buyers is to spend time with the breeder PRIOR to purchase. Puppy mill in the making...
by Jenni78 on 02 January 2012 - 18:46
|I don't think there is anything in that supplement that is harmful enough to make worrying about it now a sensible thing to do. ;-) While the breeder makes money on it, that alone isn't enough to say the supplement is bad for the dog or that's why he's 70lbs at 6mos. I have bred pups larger/heavier than that. They weren't supplemented at all and they're healthy as horses. Big doesn't always mean something is wrong with them or will ever be wrong with them. |
There is also nothing inherently dangerous about breeding every heat cycle. There is more to it that that, but again, this doesn't mean your dog has a higher chance of anything bad. Sure, pay closer attention next time, BUT don't beat yourself up about it, especially if you're happy with your dog. At least the breeder did something right! The dishonesty is the main issue. Enjoy your dog and chalk it up to a lesson learned.