German Shepherd Dog > Pregnant GSD 1st litter! (166 replies)
Pregnant GSD 1st litter!
by Cavalier K9 on 30 December 2011 - 04:25
|Hello, I'm new to the breeding world. I bred my 2 1/2 female German Shepherd Reign Van Tiekerhook and this is mine and her first litter. She is at day 57 and we did x-rays yesterday. Between the 3 vets they counted 9-14 puppies!!!! They said because of how many puppies there are that it is hard to tell. There were several places that looked like there were hiding puppies. I have been leash walking her this morning and noticed that there was a thick clear discharge after she finished she was also picking at her food. I've been taking her out every couple hours and she is constantly urinating. Tonight she inhaled her food but is panting and pacing some. Started taking her temp at 5:30pm it was 100.4 and at 9pm it was 99.7. She is a very energetic dog and always on the move and that hasn't changed. I'm I right to believe from everything that I read that she will probably be having her pups in 12 to 24 hours? Does anyone have any suggetions or pointers for me. I bought the Dura Whelp Large whelping box, Dura-whelp delux whelping kit and also the digital scale. The whelping kit came with the records to record the puppies weights and progress and the little ribbons to mark them. How snug do I place the little ribbons. Any recommendation on another way to mark them in case Reign tries to remove them? Any help/pointers would be much appreciated :-)|
by BlackthornGSD on 30 December 2011 - 04:37
|In my experience, you should be looking for a temperature drop below 99 degrees. I suspect you have another 24-48 hours to go.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 30 December 2011 - 04:48
|Just make sure you stay right close to make sure she doesn't roll on one or hurt one while in whelp.|
You will need to keep dry cloths to help move them to one side as she has each pup..THe first litter she doesn't know if she sits or steps on one it may hurt them
Just move them to other end and if you have a brooder light over them they will be happy while she squats or pushes out another one., with all the mess that flows out of her...just put dry papers or clothes or what ever you are using, and keep pups dry as possible..Watch her reaction to pups and hopefully she is not so high drive as to be excessive about cleaning and making them do what she wants. It is normal for her to do lots of cleaning and licking..very important to keep puppy breathing and pooping and bonding for pup to find her and respond..
My Tiekerhood last bitch had problems not being able to settle down ..she cleaned them so much they couldn't suck..usually the pup finds dinn dinn immediately
I am sure someone will be on here to help if you need it.
If she takes more than 4 hours inbetween pups be ready to call your vet for advice
Things ought to go smooth, and you just need to get your radio on a nice station and coffee or tea or snacks close by for a long night ...they always have them at night...lol
Offer her water outside the box, and after the 5 or 6th pup, a little cottage cheese or small amount of vanilla ice cream to cool her off...
by Cavalier K9 on 30 December 2011 - 15:35
|Thanks for all the advice! She is in the garage in a 10x5 kennel run with the Large dura whelp box and she has a 5 gallon bucket of water that is in the kennel. Walked her several times through the night and she is now starting to have diarrhea, called vet this morning and he said not to worry about it. Her temp was 99.4 around 3am and is now 100.1. She ate her usual breakfast fine. Did your tiekerhook bitch still eat before giving birth. Reigns food drive is insane so I'm not sure if its going to slow down. Though yesterday morning she was picking at it but still ate. I will be sure to watch her carefully with the pups and make sure she isn't to rough with them! I have a heat lamp set up over the whelping box and also have a smaller one over a big box just in case I need to take them out of the whelping box (hoping that everything goes smoothly). Any other suggestions?|
by Psycht on 30 December 2011 - 15:51
|I used this list when I had my first litter. Did not need all of the stuff but it does cover most, if not all, of the bases:|
by Judy P on 30 December 2011 - 16:01
|I will second YR they usually wait for night after everything has calmed down. I have had them whelp during the day but usually it is after the morning rush here and when everyone is calm and quiet. Be sure you have a nice stack of clean towels to help dry puppies and a nice nesting box to put puppies in while Mom is having another. Be ready to assist if needed but let her try it all on her own. My biggest litter has been 13, I had a litter of 13 Malinois, a rescue litter of 13 Beagle puppies and a rescue litter of 13 Lab puppies - out of these 3 litters all puppies did wonderfully. |
As you are new to this I would let your vet know time is close and be sure you have a number to reach him/her after hours. I am fortunate to have a vet I can call anytime day or night, on holidays and even while he is on vacation. I have even called him in Spain.
Good luck on the delivery and be sure to keep all of us posted, we will want pics!!
by Cavalier K9 on 31 December 2011 - 03:06
|So my vet recommended that I use a permanent marker to # each pup on the inside of their back legs. He was saying alot of the times the mother will remove the ribbons and that it will be hard for nail polish to last or show up on their black fur. What do you guys think?|
by gsd39mr on 31 December 2011 - 22:13
|Everybody I know uses something around the neck that are different colors. I used yarn myself and never had any problems. You can't make it too loose or the little buggers can get their front feet between it. It makes record keeping very easy, I had a file on each puppy by color, you can tell at a glance who is who, so notes could be made. The personalities come out immediately, "red is a whiner", "blue is first out of the box" etc. I weighed my pups frequently in the beginning,especially with a large litter, always had yarn cut to change as needed. I've never heard of permanent marker on pups and I wouldn't do it, people get high from sniffing that stuff. Mom never bothered with the yarn. Do you have anyone to help you? I've only whelped 3 litters of my own but I always had help, and I helped them with many litters. Another person really helps, someone can walk mom between puppies while the other cleans up the box to get ready for more-remember to ALWAYS walk her with a leash and carry a clean towel, mine squirted out two puppies in the snow when walking during her last February litter. Pups can be weighed and recorded quickly with a helper. We always watch first-tme moms closely-it can be exhausting if there is a large litter. Good luck hope you have puppers soon.|
by Jenni78 on 31 December 2011 - 22:46
|I honestly think less intervention is better. Don't tamper with nature until there's a good reason. I was nervous my first litter, but I was quickly told that she did not need my help, wouldn't allow it, and all was fine. She cut the cords a tiny bit too short the first time and there were 2 bleeders, but she took care of it quickly and the next time, left them much longer. I don't do ANYTHING but watch if things are progressing normally. I will give her little licks of vanilla ice cream as a calcium treat, but they do NOT need our help or interference unless there's an emergency. |
I certainly wouldn't put chemicals on newborn puppies. I don't mark them that early; she won't allow any kind of ribbon, so I don't worry about it anymore.
by amysavesjacks on 31 December 2011 - 23:19
|Isn't 57 days a bit early? Gestation is 63 days... I think you have at least another several days if not almost a week. I know every dog is different... mine always whelped on day 64.|
by Jenni78 on 31 December 2011 - 23:37
|Depends on when you started counting from is 57 is early. 57 from first breeding or last? And how many days apart were they? |
Mine had pups on day 57 once...from first breeding.
by yellowrose of Texas on 31 December 2011 - 23:38
No Marking puppies...take pics with camera if you cannot remember which one born first etc.
no chemicals or any kinds of strings....no collar on bitch...no water bucket in whelping box either.
I saw a bitch accidentally drop a live pup in a water bucket by mistake...and also some bitches growl at newborns if any kind of food eaten in birthing box...Feed her outside
not a good idea.
do not worry about eating,,if she doesn't eat the first day she will...after she eats all that after birth she doesn't need much else..yuk
I let mine eat most of it but if huge litter I catch it and dispose....Let her do her thing but keep scissors dipped in peroxide before using if she starts tearing or not cutting chord.
Most high food drive females will not eat immediately...I do like Jenn ...give some tiny bit of vanilla ice cream or cottage cheese...along about after the 5th or 6th one...Do not leave a water bucket near the birthing area.....can also be knocked over on pups.....put water outside...when she needs to potty she can get a drink...Called preventative measures.......
A lot of females will tear the collars off , especially Tiekerhook bitches..they are very tenacious and very dominant and the pups are theirs....so also the second day besure to start messaging new pups stomach, using rubber gloves on your hands(surgical ones do fine) and handling all pups daily .If you have to put mom outside to potty while you do this do it...Pups have to associate the new world of humans immediately and it is proven that using this method helps the socialization of especially high working lines...just message feet , tummies, down back, and around the head and put back in warm place...do this daily..and you will be surprised how quickly the pups bond...to you and of course the licking of mom bonds them to her...
by Cavalier K9 on 01 January 2012 - 00:35
|Still no puppies.... I am counting from the first breeding, I know its early. My vet said she could have them safely anytime after day 55. She refused to eat this morning and tonight. She has stopped allowing me to take temps on my own so I wasn't able to take her temps until my sister came over later this afternoon her temp and it was 101.4. My sister will be staying and helping me with everything. I started leash walking her on day 53 so that I could keep track of her urination and defecation. Also because she has still been wanting to run around and act crazy. Today she is much more mellow, has developed more milk. I will remove the bucket of water out of her kennel tonight! Should I try to get her to eat something? She hasn't ate a full meal since yesterday morning. She ate maybe a handful of food last night. I've been feeding her just outside the whelping box and thinking about that I will also remove her Kong and ball! I will stay away from using the marker, I didn't think that was a very good idea but had to ask! At what point would you start marking them? Its crazy that with all the research I've done and working at an Animal Emergency facility for 6 years I'm still very nervous and have a lots of questions! :-o Thank You everyone for being so kind!|
by gsd39mr on 01 January 2012 - 22:20
|I'm familar with showlines so will have to defer to the workingline folks about not putting anything on the pups as far as yarn etc. My bitch was pretty high drive and didn't have any issues with it but the other folks are more familar with your lines. She didn't eat the morning she started labor all 3 litters but otherwise didn't miss a meal. It's more important that she eats and drinks after they are born to produce enough milk, especially with a large litter. It's amazing how much is needed from about 2 weeks until they start on food. I was feeding 3 meals a day with a bedtime snack when I would put some freeze dried food in her water pail so she would drink the whole thing. I feed raw so I don't know the equivalent in kibble. I always fed her out of the box. I was always very hands on with the pups, she wasn't possessive about them with me, but anyone else who came into the room (the sire's owner) was another story. I know some of you are very hands off but I have to say I loved sitting in the box with lots of little puppies while she napped with her head on my leg, I would hold and cuddle some while others nursed. My breeding days are over but it makes me smile just to think about those days!|
by GSDguy08 on 01 January 2012 - 22:45
|I'm with Jenni on that, don't interfere unless needed. My girl has never needed my help, and she does everything perfectly. I just stick by and watch to make sure all goes accordingly.|
by amysavesjacks on 01 January 2012 - 22:51
|My girl was very needy when it came to whelping (i.e., she wanted me there... she is also a tattle tale and comes to me when the other dogs do something wrong.. lol)... the TELL TALE SIGN with her EVERY TIME was when she started rearranging her blankets and digging. I could use that better than the temp taking!|
Good luck! I hope you have a wonderful litter!!
by yellowrose of Texas on 02 January 2012 - 06:58
|DO NOT WORRY about her eating..|
She has plenty of time to eat..
The afterbirth is full of minerals etc.
No dog is the same
but I owned Tiekerhook females and they are very much dominant and do make good mothers or at least all of mine were. NOT every high prey drive bitch is a good mom/
The difference is how we use the words and how well you know what nervy and high drive means.
I do have a nervy bitch I knew would not make a good mom..
YOu do not breed those kind..BUT experience teaches you that.
It is important to evaluate a female before breeding
In your case, it is done.. So just hang in ..keep her happy and watch her...SHe is normal..SHe will start to dig and want to go hide under the house or somewhere you DO NOT want her.
I always have locked huge birthing boxes and I do sit in mine and at the end I am watching and being right there.. Hands on pups immediately and then to make sure she is not in any trouble..Some pups may be born with feet first , then you have to help...If that happens you can ask us...
You may want to call your vet before and ask him how to help the pup out if feet first happens..you must be within seeing distance when she starts pushing and licking fast and furious...squatting and nothing happening. just have a clean white cloth handy and make sure your fingers are sterilized with peroxide to reach two fingers inside and help gently pull down and out...making sure you have the pup in hand...she may be hurting so be calm...Call your vet and ask him to explain...so that you get full explanation.
My black bitch who is 3rd generation Tiekerhook and the best mamma besides my first foundation, had two feet first pups , or breech births we call them..I did help get them out...
Every dog is different and you just have to wait it out and keep calm,..play some music in the garage or room...not rap...lol
by 1GSD1 on 02 January 2012 - 18:46
|Good luck but it's 63 days from ovulation, the breeding date has nothing to do with when she'll go in labor. The issue is "rises above 5 ng" is a GUIDELINE. Some bitches may need to be 7 or 10 before they ovulate, but it is still a better indicator than breeding date.|
If you didn't do progesterone testing then you are looking for her temp to drop usually below 99 to like 98.7.
here is a good link: http://welshcorgi.com/lists/archive16.html
by Jenni78 on 02 January 2012 - 18:57
|Breeding date is a whole lot easier to count from than ovulation. How often do you know the exact date of ovulation? |
As far as indicators, unfortunately, every bitch is different and you may get a ton, or you may not have any. My Capri is awful; she nested about an hour before the first litter, otherwise gave no indications, never stops eating...ever, lol, and the subsequent litters she didn't give any indication until she was actually ready to deliver. One litter, it was really funny. My bf and I were on the couch watching TV wondering when she was going to have them. She was at my feet. All of a sudden my feet were warm and wet. She looked surprised and ran off to the whelping box. Her water had broken. She never acted funny. She has had several pups outside...she's just that type. I like it but it's difficult to pland and know when to worry because she never really tells you what's going on. Miss Nonchalant. And I don't know when she's done either, because she will want to go out and play tug while she's still in labor. This past litter, she had a puppy while stealing a piece of pizza off the counter. I saw him coming out and grabbed him before he landed.
As nonchalant as she is about whelping, she is an excellent, excellent, mother so I deal with the gray hairs she gives me. When I say I don't interfere, I mean just that. I don't mean I take a weekend trip and leave her with enough food and water and hope she does ok. lol
by 1GSD1 on 02 January 2012 - 19:37
|The link was given to give the owner some info and to clarify that it is not from breeding date.|
I refuse to start again going back and forth with anything that I post
By the way, an excellent mother is not one that is in whelp and drops a pup on the deck and picks up a toy from another dog and runs with it leaving the pup!!