German Shepherd Dog > Look at these hips (763 replies)

by aaykay on 02 January 2012 - 18:28
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LMH:

You know.....If you're going to destroy a man and take away his livelihood, at least do it intelligently.  Fact-----Chrissy receives Kaiser in June and informs Hans of overbite.  The AlpineK9 thread that workingdogz has just posted has Hans saying on AUG 25 that a pup in the litter has an overbite.   What.......you missed that???  You're an astute poster, work. Expert on just about every thread around here.  Perhaps too many posts.   


I agree with this.  Thank goodness the admin is now cracking down on the posts that are just plain libellious.  The mob fury is at its worst now, and as in all such situations, the members of the lynch-mob are not pausing to even think things through, before jumping to conclusions and making blanket accusations.

All of the usual suspects are still at it, with some of them digging out old posts/threads from other forums and trying to twist them into something it is not. 

Bottomline, let the principal parties work this out.  And then if the proposed solution is unacceptable, then let us comment further on this.  IMHO, the admins should severely crack down till order is restored.

PS:  LMH, when libellious accusations are made behind the safety of a keyboard (which of course does not have any serious enough consequences that hits one's pocketbook or reputation) against someone else,  "intelligent posting" is not required.  All you need to do is to throw more of the dirt out there, hoping some with stick.  When you have a whole mob taking up the chorus, facts or timelines don't matter.  

PS2:  I personally would have handled this situation (overbite) differently and swiftly addressed this, as a refund, MUCH early on (regardless of what is on the warranty).  Clearly, not everyone takes the same approach.  However, that still does not excuse this lynch-mob approach at viciously hitting out at a person, his reputation and his livelihood.

PS3:  Clearly, going by the numbers, Jinopo/Alpine have sold several 1000 puppies over the decades they have been in business.....across the whole world spanning several continents.  How many of those 1000s of customers are not happy ?  Statistically significant numbers ?  I doubt it. Considering those volumes, there are situations where mistakes are made, which is what the warranty is all about. 

PS4: Seems like (other than the phone-tag situation for the couple of initial weeks between Chrissy and Hans), the guy did step in and offer a replacement (which was refused by Chrissy, since she had bonded with the pup during that week that she had him) and kept that as a standing offer for the future.  Was that a perfect solution ?  No. Could things have been handled even better ?  Sure....but it is what it is.

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by Abby Normal on 02 January 2012 - 18:31
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Hans
Chrissy needs to be able to move on with getting Kaiser to an ortho specialist etc, which she cannot do until she has finances to do it with. Then her mind can focus purely on Kaiser and the surgery that lies ahead for him. 

Are you able to get to her quickly to resolve this for her now as you didn't answer whether you have organised a date to meet with her? 
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by sable59 on 02 January 2012 - 18:38
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Jim, i was refering to my pup from jinipo. i never did and don't wan't a replacement dog. Why??? because i have to ship the dog back at my expense, pay for the return shipmeny,travel to d.c. and back to get another dog.
the expense is to great for another pup from these breeders, the warranty they have is set up for that.
how did that get by jeri? my opinion he never saw the pup before it wa shipped and may have never seen it. i honestly don't think he ever saw the one the owner sent me and doubt that he was even present in the breeding.
 i ordered a pup from jinipo and got a pup from another kennel.
i should have called tauna or josef and had them find a pup suitable to what i asked for. ya live and learn!!
i have talked to hans since then and told him i was having him ofa'd in feb.
he sent an e-mail back and said i had to send the x-rays to him before i did that so as to get a replacement if they were bad. i, ofcourse told him i did not want a replacement. thast was the reason for my statement ,'it is over.
  wade
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by joanro on 02 January 2012 - 18:43
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Aaykay, If a person does business in banks for three decades and never commits a crime against any of the banks over the years, then on three or four occasions decides they can get away with robbing a few, does that mean his numbers of no crime against the majority of banks makes him ok?Even if he decides to give the stolen money back to one bank, the fact remains he has still defrauded the others. I'm just say'n.
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by Prager on 02 January 2012 - 18:50
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I can come to her place today. It is her choice.
Hans
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by aaykay on 02 January 2012 - 18:51
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Aaykay, If a person does business in banks for three decades and never commits a crime against any of the banks over the years, then on three or four occasions decides they can get away with robbing a few, does that mean his numbers of no crime against the majority of banks makes him ok? 

Joanro, a replacement pup was offered and refused by Chrissy, since she had already bonded with the pup during that week, if I am not entirely mistaken.  The replacement offer is still standing, unless I missed something.  Don't see any "robbery" here.
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by Red Sable on 02 January 2012 - 18:51
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"I personally was arguing to Jiri to  give her the money back because she had  problem which predated from time before the shipping, which we should have caught.  Eventually he  agreed to give money back if the teeth did not straighten up at 8 mo. That was the final agreement between me and Jiri. 
We were/are going to give her money back if at 8 mo the teeth will  not be straighten up.
The time is about 8 mo now."



When was this agreed upon?  and why didn't Chrissy know about this?
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by joanro on 02 January 2012 - 19:23
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Aaykay, simply put, the robbery occurred when the pup was shipped. It's good that the two partners have collectively decided to return the ill got money, but there are still others out there who will never be compensated according to their contract. But by now, those have had to suck it up. Chrissy and Kyser can now proceed with getting the procedures needed so he can be relatively pain free.
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by Abby Normal on 02 January 2012 - 19:25
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Over to you Chrissy, sooner is best I think. Hopefully you can see him today?
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by mtndawg on 02 January 2012 - 19:35
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Why do so many people on here think that Hans owes them some type of personal explanation, when they have nothing to do with the situation other than circling the blood in the water?  It's almost like you love when somebody has a bad experience, so that you have something to post about.  Sad really.  I can't decide if it's a jealousy issue,  or if some of you are just really miserable human beings.  Some are here to help, and that is obvious.  Others are here to jump on the pile, and revel in other's problems, that is obvious as well.  I hope Kaiser is able to get some procedures that will allow him to keep on keeping on, and so that OP and he can live a good life together.  
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by Red Sable on 02 January 2012 - 19:45
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If you're referring to my question mtndawg, I think many are wondering the same thing.  If Hans would have communicated this to Chrissy 3 days ago, (as it sounded like this  had been decided a while ago) then there would be no blood in the water, would there?
I think it is an honest question.

We absolutely  do care, and hate to see an innocent person get taken advantage of, by ANY breeder.
Jealousy?  Hardly, those of us that are upset are fellow puppy buyers not breeders,  we work hard for our money, and love our dogs, so we can empathise with Chrissy.
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by mtndawg on 02 January 2012 - 19:55
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Red Sable,

I wasn't referring to any one question in particular, but do find it interesting that you felt the need to respond/defend yourself.
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by beetree on 02 January 2012 - 20:12
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What great progress!

The ego's involved are inconsequential I think, what matters is the result. And Chrissy, I'd take Hans up on his offer, this very day, if I were you.
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by Red Sable on 02 January 2012 - 20:18
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 @ dawg:  Yes, I only have evil intentions at heart.

I find it interesting that you are defending these actions.


Actually that's not true, I dont' find you interesting at all, truth be known.

If the blood in the water helped speed things along, it was worth it.



 

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by Slamdunc on 02 January 2012 - 20:38
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I'm glad this is finally being taken care of.  aaykay, I agree with you that Hans should have handled this differently from the start, basically one mistake after another.  If he refunds the purchase price plus shipping that will certainly help Chrissy and Kaiser.  I will still chip in to help cover the other medical expenses.  For those of you that feel the concerned members of the PDB were too harsh and judgmental on Hans, keep in mind this thread ran for several pages and days before his name was mentioned.  Nothing had been done to help Chrissy and kaiser until he was "outed."  That is the other shameful part of this situation.  I hope Hans is driving to Tucson right now with cash in hand.    No one is jealous here, just concerned for the poor dog and a girl that was taken advantage of.  If people can't see that, well that is unfortunate for them. 

Edited by Slamdunc on Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:22 pm ::
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by EchoEcho on 02 January 2012 - 21:00
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We absolutely  do care, and hate to see an innocent person get taken advantage of, by ANY breeder.
Jealousy?  Hardly, those of us that are upset are fellow puppy buyers not breeders,  we work hard for our money, and love our dogs, so we can empathise with Chrissy.


Well said Red Sable. I too work hard for my money and love my dogs and would be crushed and heart broken if something like this happened to the puppy I brought home. There is a stigma out there that breeders are like used car salesmen because of people like Hans and Jiri. These breeders should be exposed for what they are. I am sure that Hans wouldn't be getting a refund if it weren't for the blood in the water right now. 

I hope this thread serves as a lesson for people who are out there shopping for a puppy. Buyer beware and don't have a dog shipped unless you have the heart and the money to have it shipped back. 

Something just anecdotal, the breeder I recently got a puppy from (locally) said that he use to import puppies however, he found that more often than not the puppies and dogs that were shipped to him were not breeding quality as he had paid for so he quit having dogs shipped in. I not saying but, I am just saying.
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by Prager on 02 January 2012 - 21:41
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Hi this is Debbie...

I rarely post on here because frankly I dont think that a business owner can ever win on a forum. Hans and I DISCUSS this frequently:) (If you get my drift) I have had it!!!! Every one of these posts over the last two years, that you all like to drag upcan be answered in three words.   "READ THE WARRANTY' We have all of the customers read and acknnowledge it before purchase. Then when something happens they are not happy with it. Everyone always to keep the dog and get money back. We have never denied a problem. We have asked for pictures, xrays, etc. for our records, but never denied problem. Forced to defend ourselves and our decision, but never denied. After all there is always more than one way to skin a cat...so we defend how we have chosen to skin the cat.


Sonia Berg.......This is the only time that we asked for the dog back as we thought dog would be better off here. By the way i am sure that you are all aware of the other person she pulled the same  stuff on. As it was a post here on PDB.


Wade..........We offered to replace pup as soon as we got appropriate pictures. Also offered to help him sell the pup with or without the pictures because we knew that he was ill. No pictures no replacement or anything else. Again cannot confirm or deny without documentation.



Frank............No dog to replace!!!!!  Since he only picked our brain to get the information he needed to go buy the dog on his own. I don't know about any of you but to me time is valuable. He then had the audacity to call us crooks. Whether you think that the markup is too much, too little or just right taking someones time to me is thievery!!!!! By the way I have noticed a thread here from someone who got   shafted on 7 dogs.....and we are the crooks for trying to take the time effort and energy to weed this stuff out for people. Not saying we are perfect but we try 200%.


Chrissy........Offered replacement right up front and she refused. Someone said that somewhere in all of rthis she didn't get a call for three days. That could very well be true!!!!! No e-mails or
phone calls have been returned around here for at least three days!!!!! Between the holidays and all of the office time being spent on this junk. Wonder if they are feeling slighted and going to
say something? Only so many hours in the day.....


PM's and e-mails......Do you know how many questions Hans answers for free? Ironically, many from people who go on here and bash us. They ask all kinds of questions about breeding, behavior problems etc. that he could technically get paid for. Shoot they even ask if they should buy a dog from another breeder. Am I a little pissy about this? You betcha!!! I am the one cleaning dog poop while he is giving information that some just turn around and stab him in the back with. He always tries to do the right thing because he cares for the breed and the people who love them.

Are we perfect?.....H*** NO!!!!!!Do we try to satisfy customers? YES!!!! Always to the best of our ability!!!! We aren't selling wallets, we are selling living breathing lovable creatures. Yes, people pay a lot of money for them, and believe me we work hard for it!!!!! Do we have more satisfied than dissatisfied customers? Yes or we would have been out of business a long time ago. Enough said.....everybody go and have a Happy and Prosperous New Year!!!! Go outside and play with the dog!!!!! You all spend too much time here getting your blood pressure up!!!! Including Hans!!!!!


thanks for listening to my rant...lifes too short to be crabby:)
  Debbie
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by beetree on 02 January 2012 - 21:52
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 Hi Debbie,
 
You forgot the discount pup. That one had a few hiccups, too.

But really-- none were quite like Chrissy's situation. So glad the refund is happening for her, rightfully so. 
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by mtndawg on 02 January 2012 - 22:01
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"@ dawg:  Yes, I only have evil intentions at heart. 

I find it interesting that you are defending these actions.


Actually that's not true, I dont' find you interesting at all, truth be known.

If the blood in the water helped speed things along, it was worth it."



I don't believe I was defending anyone's actions... was I?  The fact that you shoot back w/how you don't find me interesting speaks volumes.  Thanks for the lulz in an otherwise depressing thread.

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by Schaferhunden on 02 January 2012 - 22:03
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Prager Hans
Is back posting nonsense.I'll bet he is still not ready to give Chrissy a refund.If he were
she would be on here saying thanks he gave me my money back. This is his way of
conducting Damage control 
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