German Shepherd Dog > Opinions on Possible future breeding (38 replies)
by EisenFaust on 28 December 2011 - 18:52
|I am not breeding based on paper and pedigrees, I am breeding based on several dogs that have demonstrated to reproduce the qualities I want. I love the physical on the ground characteristcs of my female, she is a worker, a lover and a pleaser all in one dog. She lights up when it is time to work whether it is bitework or obedience. She is awesome in the house and is awesome with kids. When you have generations of champions, and strong producers why not use them. I am trying to tighten up the pool to get the traits I want. I will then take a puppie from this litter and then do an outcross.|
by Blitzen on 28 December 2011 - 18:58
Exactly, EisenFaust. Good luck.
by Two Moons on 28 December 2011 - 18:59
|The reality is people breed the way they want, and that's as it should be.|
Just don't claim to be improving the breed, that's utter none sense.
by EisenFaust on 28 December 2011 - 19:09
|I am not trying to improve the breed as a whole because their is only one of me and 1000 of backyard breeders. Now I am looking for superior females that have strong pedigrees, high health standars but most importantly they themselves must be able to perform. So then I find a male that will be of equal or greater quality in order to increase my chances of producing healthy puppies that can work and can be good pets. Not pets that can work, to me there is a difference.|
by Blitzen on 28 December 2011 - 19:17
|I don't understand why breeders shouldn't have a goal of improving the breed.|
by Jenni78 on 28 December 2011 - 19:26
|Because, Blitzen. Everyone is so damned negative that they think anyone who would dare attempt such a thing must be some sort of egomaniac with delusions of grandeur. |
I don't see why anyone would do a single breeding if they didn't think it would improve something.
by darylehret on 28 December 2011 - 19:41
|I assure you that intelligence, health and temperament and MORE are very much important components in my selection process. I'm quite familiar with what makes a good herding dog as well. But, you'll never catch me claiming to improve "the breed" with what I produce, because I'm aware of the limitations of what my influence is now, or ever could be. Sharing my rationale on public forum will have a far greater impact on german shepherd breeding than everthing I'm able to produce on the ground ever will. But I would welcome you to come see my dogs, learn my philosophy, THEN explain how your expectations fall short.|
by duke1965 on 28 December 2011 - 19:51
|im back tooooo late , blitzen said it all , good view on things , outcrossing all the way is really what causes problems|
as far as understanding linebreeding eisenfaust , your puppy can be linebred on paper but be a genetic outcross , in the words of ronny van den berge ,, Eros is a mothertypical bitch , now one can assume that if a dog displays looks and caractertraits of his mother he will also geneticly be more mothertypical , and pass on more mothertypical traits , where elluteCAN be more Tomlike dog , I think without debating qualities of either dog , ellute is the better producer of them two
the line of champions eisenfaust mentions wont help the breeding 1 % as that is mostly ronnys and his teams work , and he for sure isnt going to train your pups ,
so I would call this breeding no closer than a 3-3 on Tom , which isnot bad in itself , anf final outcome very much depends on quality of the actual dogs used for breeding
by Two Moons on 28 December 2011 - 19:58
|Improving the breed sounds so lofty but the reality is you can only improve what you have according to your idea of improvement.|
The breed as a whole is not something that can be controlled as a whole.
Unless there are rigid standards and breed wardens who police the breeding of every animal which will never happen.
Yes most who take it seriously hope to make improvements, but everyone's in such a hurry and money is involved so I remain dubious as to what's really being accomplished.
by duke1965 on 28 December 2011 - 20:02
|@ tdc ,ON PAPER, to me , according how to I see things that is a very good buildup in linebreeding , doubling up on qualitydog where other halfs of pedigree are mosly different , also the other halfs will(on paper) both bring in something extra seriousness , so avoid to make it a too much sport/sport combination , as that is a big problem IMO on most breedings nowadays, the are too much sport/points on both sides of the pedigree|
this combination will probably throw some problems this line is known for , but if they go to good homes and you continue with the best , you have something interesting here IMO
by Blitzen on 28 December 2011 - 21:41
|Since improving the breed sound so lofty, what about making a breeding with the goal of improving you own dogs?|
by Fenrir on 28 December 2011 - 21:42
|I have to disagree about the not improving the breed, I will go as far as to say all those that are putting time into reasearch of pedigree and individual dog characteristics and are staying within the standard and making sure bad stock is not being bred. These people are indeed helping the breed and are surely improving it from what it HAS become.|
I think you top breeders need to be a little less humble in this matter, Jenni and Daryl you are both doing your part and are having an impact. Yes one cannot stear the breed as a whole however just by not being a BYB already you are helping fix the staus qou. Thank God for real breeders and who cares about what people want to nit pick. Honestly anyone can say any breeding is not helping or not going to change anything. However I personally believe we as individuals are keepers of this breed and ergo on the personal level must do our part it is all that we can do after all.
Eisen good luck on your breeding on paper it looks fantastic by the way, I too plan to line breed my dog I want to have more Hella and Bora and would not mind a 3-5 or 3-4 on Paska. Still have a ways to go with my little one before we get to that point but I like to plan ahead
by Blitzen on 28 December 2011 - 21:43
|Moon, maybe this is none of my business and I'm sure you won't hesitate to tell me so, but are the dogs you use for breeding titled or proven in any venue?|
by Mystere on 29 December 2011 - 01:03
|"I will then take a puppie from this litter and then do an outcross. "|
GOOD ON YA!!! Not just "creating' the next breeding, but planning ahead on the breeding of the results. It will be interesting to see you rsecond and third generation.
by Chaz Reinhold on 29 December 2011 - 01:32
|Agree with Duke. Point dogs produce points. Some of the best dogs to breed to aren't always champions. But remember, two full time working parents aren't good either. They never have time for their kids. Some of the best dogs I've had came from a good mix. Too much of a good thing, is not a good thing. I'd be interested to see what this breeding produces.|
by EisenFaust on 29 December 2011 - 02:44
|This is a video of the my bitch in questio.|
by EisenFaust on 29 December 2011 - 03:09
by Slamdunc on 29 December 2011 - 04:55
|Jenni, that silly girl wrote:|
"I don't see why anyone would do a single breeding if they didn't think it would improve something."
Perhaps they just are simply trying to improve their wallets.
This is certainly not the case with the Op, as he has excellent dogs, breeds to excellent dogs and a proven track record. I really like the female, she is awesome. Good luck with your breeding.
by EisenFaust on 29 December 2011 - 20:18
|In every breeding we do we are trying to improve on something whether its working ability, drive, looks or workability. Alsoin the breedings that I am apart of I look at the breeding as if I was going to keep a puppy from the litter. What would i like what would i want so yes a lot of thaught goes into the breedings. also if someone thinks that am getting rich from this huh and if someone is please share with me the secret "I promise I wont tell" :) thanks everyone|