German Shepherd Dog > Breed Survey question (18 replies)
Breed Survey question
by Smiley on 22 December 2011 - 14:40
|Does anyone know if the SV will accept an AKC herding Championship in place of a HGH? There are only 2 places that offer HGH training in the Northeast and they are both a hike for me. Would a Herding Championship, in course C, be allowed?|
by gagsd4 on 22 December 2011 - 14:53
|It is not accepted.|
by Smiley on 22 December 2011 - 14:59
|Too bad. |
Well, I will have to hope we can get a ScH title then......I *may* have found a club to train with so, hopefully, it will all work out!!But, I was trying to have a Plan B just in case!!!
by JudyK on 22 December 2011 - 15:38
|C course is not allowed but it is close enough to HGH that you may be able to work on the HGH after completing the C course without too much difficulty. At least that's my understanding. |
by Smiley on 22 December 2011 - 23:03
|Thanks, Judy. That is what I was thinking.....too bad that it is not accepted as C Course (advanced) will clearly show the working ability of the dog.|
by eichenluft on 23 December 2011 - 08:42
|No. but as Judy said, you could work on the C course and move from there to HGH, trial for HGH is acceptable for breed survey.|
by Smiley on 23 December 2011 - 12:48
|Thanks! Yeah, I was thinking that might be an option. The only 2 HGH training places I know if are in NJ and NY.|
I wanted a back up plan in case finding a ScH club didn't work out.....which has been a nightmare with my GSDCA membership. I thought I had my foot in the door a couple days ago but never heard back from the person when I asked for their contact information for their club.
So, I might give up on the ScH thing and try to do the herding and get a HGH. There is some kind of unseen hatred and/or politics between the ScH people and GSDCA that I do not understand nor know enough about. *sigh* So, herding looks like it may be in our future as I am tired of begging to get in with these ScH club.......
Eichenluft..you own that nice black HGH stud, right? I bookmarked him!! hehehe
by Rass on 23 December 2011 - 12:56
|Actually, IMO, the C course and the HGH show training.. not necessarily the true working ability of the dog. SchH titles can do likewise. |
I have seen trial dogs that were doing a job out of obedience... instead of out of work ethic and genetics. Having had livestock and had a dog that herded (a GSD) every day as part of my livelihood, there is a difference.
Remember, real herding is about the livestock and the dog is a tool. Most dogs can be trained to trial......
How many C course or HGH dogs could be left with a boundary and livestock without a shepherd? How many could do the work if the shepherd were to turn his back on the flock and stand there and leave the dog to work without constant directions?
Just something to think about (and perhaps discuss if there is interest).
by Smiley on 23 December 2011 - 13:07
|Very, very good points Rass!! I meant that since both HGH dogs and ScH dogs can be trained to trial than trialing with C Course would also be a similar comparison to the others!!|
I agree with you 100% on dogs being trained to trial out of obedience and not, necessarily, genertic herding ability. As you know from my previous posts, I have a strong interest in herding (though I was planning on trying to trial through AKC as the HGH training is FAR). I sure do hope my girl can herd!!!
But, back to your points, so, so true....big difference between a trial dog and a working farm dog.
by Mackenzie on 23 December 2011 - 13:25
|As a suggestion Sara you might like to think of the future and save up to buy a dog with true herding instincts from the Fullers in Germany. It is worth looking up their website to see their history. When I last saw Karl Fuller he was 82 and still out tending sheep with his dogs. They are the breeders under the affix v Kirschental and their reputation is well known in the USA. They have bred many top showline dogs with working sheepdogs behind them including the Sieger Eiko v Kirschental. The best known female from them is the VA Xitta v Kirschental who was a working dog. I have seen the video of her working a flock at the age of eleven years.|
I have a three year old female from them who has natural herding instincts.
by Smiley on 23 December 2011 - 13:33
I have seen their dogs and met some. They are nice dogs but not might type in looks. I like the old Kirschental look a lot better and no matter how great a dog herds, I just can't stand a certain outline in appearance. Just ruins it for me!!
But, I like old Kirschental stuff, for sure (versus the modern showdog Kirschental).
I also REALLY like a stud who is descended from Manfred Heyne stock that is in PA. He does not have a ScH title like a lot of the other herding dogs but he is a regular working farmdog which is neat.
I try to follow all the herding blooldines (for future reference) that are doing well in America..........
by eichenluft on 23 December 2011 - 13:36
|Yes Sara - my black dog who is NOT "herding lines" was titled HGH a few years ago, trained and titled by Ulf Kintzel - another option for you if you can't do it yourself - Ulf does take a couple dogs/year in for training.|
by Smiley on 23 December 2011 - 13:52
I saw that!! He looks nice!!
But...no way could I drop my dog off to someone for training!! Maybe if she was imported and I hadn't met her yet......But, she's "my girl"!! LOL Plus, she is a family dog so I am sure the whole family would give that plan a thumbs down!!!
I might just forget about the breed survey thing since I am having a hrd time with finding a ScH club (with me being a GSDCA member) and the HGH training is so far away. Maybe I will just try to do AKC herding and I also plan on doing AKC obedience and agility. She is in competitive obedience class now and starts puppy agility and nosework after the holidays so that should be fun!!
If I could get an AKC herding CH than that would still be awesome!! I want to try to get a SV style conformation rating and a BH as well....
However, I will look into if anyone has had success training on C Course and then titling in HGH.
by Elkoorr on 23 December 2011 - 14:45
|My girl Tunguska is out of herding lines over the mother side. Her granny is Venja vom Falkenschrei of Herbert Kind, the 2004 Bundessiegerin. Venja had one daughter Ullana who won it the next two years. Tunguska's mother, Eicke vom Haus Kind was actively herding sheep in Germany as well.|
I can tell that she carries the "herding-gene", rigt now she is herding a pack of dogs....lol She is a very independent thinker, evaluates situations, and is easily voice directed from a distance. Sadly there is no herding close to me, and the few spots that are, are taken by the border collie community. Tried, but they wont let me in "their circle". So SCHH it is, but her instincts are causing us some grief there :)
by karen forbes on 23 December 2011 - 14:55
|Glad that you won't just pay someone to title your dog for you-That is a very good thing!!|
by eichenluft on 23 December 2011 - 17:20
|to each their own but I normally title my own dogs too - however I have/had zero opportunity here to train in HGH - only border-collie herding training around here. I raised my Brix from a puppy (bred him) and it was indeed extremely hard on me to leave him there, and I missed him a lot. But, Ulf was excellent in keeping in touch, frequent updates, pictures and videos almost weekly, so I got to see how he was doing in training and also that he was doing just fine in Ulf's care. It was a very good experience.|
by karen forbes on 23 December 2011 - 18:18
|I was responding to Sara's post|
by Rass on 23 December 2011 - 19:15
|You do know that Aiko von der Kleinen Wiese got his HGH on October 15, 2011. |
I was there and saw him earn the title.
by Smiley on 23 December 2011 - 19:53
|Of course I know!!! *wink* :-0 Sent you PM Sara|