German Shepherd Dog > Do you think she is a purebred? (33 replies)
Do you think she is a purebred?
by Kevlar on 20 December 2011 - 01:58
|I adopted this dog as a puppy from a rescue and I have always wondered if she is a purebred. It doesn't matter enough to me to have a DNA done on her but I figure you all are the experts and was wondering what you thought... these pictures aren't great for conformation but just wondering what you thought. Let me know if there are pictures I can take that would give you a better idea. She is a little long and lanky but my vet told me that was probably because she was spayed when she was 8 weeks old. Anyway, would love to hear any opinions out there!!|
Here she is at 8 weeks old
Here she is at 5 months old
Here she is at 1 year old
Here she is today at 2.5 years
by GSDguy08 on 20 December 2011 - 02:30
|Looks like it to me, and looks like a nice dog as well.|
by Von Ward Kennels on 20 December 2011 - 03:03
|Purebred with some American lines in her. She looks noble and easy to handle.|
by Jenni78 on 20 December 2011 - 03:08
|Purebred. American. Poor thing, spayed at 8 weeks. That accounts for some of the physical immaturity (lankiness, narrower head, etc.)|
by Kevlar on 20 December 2011 - 03:35
|She must be American working lines but she isn't easy to handle at all... she has been quite the challenge good and bad. It is too bad the city shelters have to spay before they release a dog. She is very thin/narrow also. Hope spaying her that early doesn't have any long term consequences.|
by Kalibeck on 20 December 2011 - 04:07
|She looks 100% GSD to me! jackie harris|
by Ruger1 on 20 December 2011 - 04:23
|She is a pretty little thing..Looks just like a GSD to me..:)|
by Konotashi on 20 December 2011 - 13:51
|Got my vote for 'definitely purebred.' However, I don't believe there is such thing as American working lines. American line breeders breed based on AKC standards, usually with little to no regard to working ability - as long as they display the 'flying trot,' and have extreme angulation, then they're fit to breed....|
by Blitzen on 20 December 2011 - 14:28
|I think she's purebred, wouldn't want to guess which lines since many randomly bred GSD's are combinations of both. There are no "American Working Lines" per se, but not all Am dogs are worthless. Some have OB titles, work in search and rescue, serve as service and therapy dogs.|
by Jenni78 on 20 December 2011 - 14:31
|I would be extra cautious if she's very long and narrow because of bloat. Some say there is a correlation between lenth of torso, depth of chest, and lack of good muscle tone/strong ligaments and bloat. I know an old breeder who swears the better structured and shorter-bodied WL dogs have a slighter incidence of bloat than many show/pet lines because the structure is "dryer" and firmer, tighter, etc. Breeding for a lot of angulation and unnatural structure leads to looser ligamentation which may be in various parts of the body and be connected with a higher chance of the stomach actually flipping (torsion) if the dog ever bloats. |
There is absolutely no "proof" of this theory that I can find, but he bred GSDs since the early 1960's and never had a dog bloat...which is ungodly lucky if you don't believe he was at all correct in a body type more/less likely to bloat. There is also a genetic component but it's been proven that it is less related strictly to genes than environment.
Anyway...in what ways is she difficult to handle? Is she just high energy and puppy like or really difficult to manage?
by Fenrir on 20 December 2011 - 15:09
|Yeah that looks 100% shepherd to me, but definitely an American Line. Enjoy her, these dogs are the best :)|
by Kevlar on 20 December 2011 - 15:44
|Jenni78- She has always been difficult to manage. Yes she is high energy but she is extremely difficult to correct. Even her Mother and other adult dogs at her foster home where she was raised couldn't correct her to make her stop doing unwanted behaviors. She has been the same way with me and the same way with the professional trainers that have worked with us. Their advice is I have to be more physical with her which does work although sometimes you feel like you are abusing your dog. Not that I hit her or anything like that but do you have to get very physical with her at times to get your point across. To ad to this she is very high energy. She could jog with us 8+ miles a day is still have energy to burn... even right after exercise. We would get home from a run and she would tear through the house as if it never happened. We would put her on a treadmill for 40-50 minutes plus a run and this didn't help. In a search to find her a "job" that would fit into our lifestyle I found frisbee. That seemed to help. Fetching with a ball didn't seem to do the trick but there was something about catching a frisbee before it hit the ground (she would make it her mission) that really helped her. That combined with a trainer that introduced us to a shock collar. The shock collar was really the only training tool she has responded to. Any thoughts on this?|
Also she is very long and narrow and I do worry about bloat. She has very little if any angulation which I guess is good. Her gait isn't typical for a shepherd she has a little bounce to her rear if that makes sense. Her energy level combined with her lack of angulation has always made me think she is from working lines. There just doesn't seem to be anything SL about her.
by Fenrir on 20 December 2011 - 16:05
|She certainly could have working lines in her however most working line do not have that kind of saddle (obviously some do) and her face is very American line. I am also of the belief that spaying too soon can have developmental issues. Shock collars certainly have their use but should be used in the right situation and only with proper instruction. I am sure the trainer that showed you how to use it did a good job though. Have you tried working obedience in drive as oppose to compulsion or food? If she is hyper training her in drive might help make obedience more fun and give you both less reason to misunderstand or be stubborn.|
by aaykay on 20 December 2011 - 16:13
She does look like a purebred GSD. Does seem like some American blood is mixed into her, however.
by Jenni78 on 20 December 2011 - 16:51
|The lack of angulation is typical with many pet lines. There are Am. breeders breeding for a big, straight-backed dog, so that could very well be where she got the structure from. I think she may be a cross between pet and show lines, though, as her pigment is fairly good for pure pet lines. I think the baby spay has altered how she should have looked though, so it's tough to tell. Her back legs may be higher now than if her growth plates had been allowed to close at the proper time. This is most obvious in breeds like Rotts that are neutered too young; hormones aren't there to tell the plates to close, so the bones continue to grow and the dog ends up taller than nature would have intended Also, sometimes it seems they are forever locked in "puppy mode"; they will never go through the hormonal changes that facilitate mental and physical maturity, so you may be seeing some challenges there. You may not, but I've heard of it happening.|
As far as the energy levels...pretty typical GSD. What I would try is mental stimulation instead of so much exercise. The challenging ones often respond better to it than just running them until their paws bleed;-). I couldn't last through the exercise that mine would require to truly be tired. So, intead, I combine exercise with problem-solving, hard agility (I mean military type obstacles, not just regular agility though that would help also), maybe some trick training...anything to keep her mind busy. I see far less "defiant" behaviors from dogs who are mentally content and challenged continually than dog who are just run or play fetch, etc.
by Kevlar on 20 December 2011 - 21:16
|There really isn't anything typical about her. I had a German Shepherd previously who I would describe at a "typical" German Shepherd. I do believe that spaying her early did something to her. I was around her litter a lot before she was spayed and she didn't exhibit the out right defiance to other adult dogs like after she was spayed. Now she isn't hyper but she still has a lot of drive. She is very settled in the house and in our yard. But if I get out the frisbee she can play for hours. I have done lots of other little fun hide and seek games with her and teaching he silly tricks. 95% of the problem I was having with her was growing up she just flat out didn't listen to anyone or anything. That is where the shock collar came in very handy. It was like all the sudden we had a common language and from then forward she has been very manageable. it really didn't take but two or three times and she seemed to understand when I want a behavior to stop (like going underneath my dining room table and barking at me) it needs to stop. Now I just use it as a communication tool when she is off leash. I rarely have to use the shock portion I just use the tone. She is also very very overly friendly to strangers and other dogs. Some people might not see this as a problem but this is when I would say she displays almost "hyper" behavior. I have never seen a GSD be so friendly to complete strangers. It is still a little of a mystery to me how to get her to stop this behavior. All and all she is a fantastic dog and every neighbor and neighbor child I have just loves her. The neighbor kids jump my fence (which is only 3 feet high) to play with her. I completely trust her with my kids, cats, and other people's children. She was just very difficult to manage growing up. Even when I was speaking with a long time breeder of GSDs who bred working lines and show lines said it is very unusual to have a puppy not take correction from other dogs. She is also very confident and not afraid of anything. Sometimes I think she doesn't even have a health fear... like when we were sharpening an agar with a grinder in our garage and sparks were flying everywhere and it was very loud. She wasn't afraid in the least... She just kept laying in the garage as if nothing was going on. We had to move her to keep the sparks off of her. She had never seen anything like this before... this closest thing might be fireworks. But most dogs would have at least gotten up when the sparks started flying?? 4th of July is the same way... first time she saw a big fountain with sparks and loud noises she went out into the street to see what it was?? We had to call her back?? I am not complaining about this... I actually really like this about her but it doesn't seem very typical.|
by ggturner on 20 December 2011 - 23:39
|She looks like a purebred gsd and is very pretty! I have a couple of WL gsds that have a strong prey/ball drive, but know how to be calm in the house like your dog. My gsds also are not afraid of loud, unexpected noises like fireworks.|
by Jenni78 on 21 December 2011 - 00:37
|Honestly, sounds pretty normal except for the overly friendly behavior, which I would say could be that "locked in puppyland" thing due to the infant spay. Keep in mind, hormones are a HUGE part of what tells dogs how to behave and react to their environment. You cannot (fairly) expect her to behave as a whole dog would in terms of mental maturity because she doesn't have all the key components that make that happen. |
If she's a great dog all in all, then I would honestly not worry about the little quirks and enjoy her.
by Kevlar on 21 December 2011 - 07:09
|I guess I didn't realize it was typical to have to resort to a shock collar to train. Every GSD trainer and breeder I have spoken with said her defiance is not typical.|
by Jenni78 on 21 December 2011 - 12:29
|I'm not sure it's defiance you're seeing. Never met her. Or you. I have nothing to go on except what you're telling us. If people truly understood dog behavior like they think, they wouldn't have so many problems. It's all about the communication. I don't have a problem with an e collar (not a shock collar...that's not how it should be used in most cases), but I do have a problem with it when it's seen as the easy way out or a last resort, and I think most people don't have any business using one. I'm not questioning your use of it on her, but I'm wondering what else you tried before deciding she's simply defiant and needs an e collar.|
You've said a few things that have cast some doubt as to what really motivates her as opposed to what you might think motivates her. Obviously, if you think she's that defiant at a young age, then, you haven't truly found what makes her tick (most likely) or you wouldn't still be having these issues.
What's up with the barking at you under the table? Can you explain that?
I don't see anything odd about not caring about fireworks. If you're used to a kind of dog who would be timid and fearful in those situations, perhaps she's just more dog than you're used to.
This isn't your original question and has veered way off, so don't feel obligated to answer if you don't want to. It just seems like you are not wanting to accept what's been said here and by all means, tell us why you disagree that this is normal behavior. Maybe we're not getting the clear pic online.