Search forum
Back to German Shepherd Dog
Liked top 20
ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Is £2000 too much to pay for importing a dog from Jinopo cz into the UK (239 replies)
by Jenni78 on 22 December 2011 - 14:58 |
| LOL. How many pages back did I point out the futility of this ASININE debate? RS, you seem to be getting stuck in trees and not seeing forest;-) I merely posted that parvo remark sarcastically in response to aaykay's post, 2 posts above mine. I thought it was obvious. To bring parvo into this debate about MONEY is utterly ridiculous. The argument is about how much money is too much and from whom...not about sick dogs and parvo. It was a juvenile, impertinent thing to be brought up, and I agreed with aaykay's logical post. Regarding that other post, though, how many dogs does someone buy with problems before they stop getting them from that person? I mean, the last 45 light bulbs I have bought from Larry' Lightbulb Store haven't worked, but I have a feeling that #46 will be the charm?! Those odds are so bizarre that I question the credibility of the whole post and wonder what "else" there is to the story. If he bought 100 dogs, the odds are more believable. |
Jenni78 by Horand on 22 December 2011 - 15:27 |
| aloysius17 said: "Dear Holand, I am sorry to hear about your experience, but I was wondering if the dogs you recieved has health issues why did you continue purchasing?" As I mentioned, I was Jinopo´s distributor and some of these dogs were bought for my clients not for me. As they got older some of these problems arise, x-rays were done, Panus was diagnosed, etc... When I saw this I just stop buying from them. I know about other cases but I did not bought these dogs so I don´t think it is ok to talk about them. You can check the birth dates of all these dogs and you will see they born between november 2006 and July 2008 and one of these dogs was a replacement so actually I bought only 5 dogs in a year and a half period of time. I had imported around 50 dogs from Germany, Belgium, Slovakia and Czech Rep so these 5 dogs represents only 10% of my complete purchases and the only ones I had with health issues so far. In this year and half between Nov 06 and July 08 I could make xrays to the older dogs and some other problems arise with the others so when I saw all this I stop buying because my clients and my reputation is first. As I told you, this is only my experience and give some facts to share, if you think this info helps you take it, if not, just throw it away. aaykay wrote: "In addition to that, I am guessing the Parvo situation had nothing to do with Jinopo but had everything to do with situations at the puppy's destination." I can´t blame Jinopo for Parvo that is for sure. But, the fact is that I had a litter by that time and none of them had Parvo and also the incubation and symptoms of the disease is between 2 and 3 weeks and according to the breeder and health certificate from Czech vet the pup was completely vaccinated and dewormed already prior to shipping. The dog could have been stressed for the trip and his immunological system went down and maybe got something in customs or maybe he came with the disease from Czech Rep, that I will never know so partially you are right. |
by Chaz Reinhold on 22 December 2011 - 16:16 |
| RS, well said. Ordinary Pups at extraordinary prices. See it all the time. Breeders sell most of their dogs to people with very little knowledge of what a good dog is. They buy a second pup from the same breeder and rave at how great they are. Show me some results, and I may contemplate paying a higher price. Someone that breeds 40+ litters a year with little show does not interest me. Also, someone that breeds once a year and none of their Pups are titled or working, doesn't interest me either. |
Chaz Reinhold by Chaz Reinhold on 22 December 2011 - 16:17 |
| Jenn, your analogy isn't really correct. You aren't a distributor for the light bulb guy. |
by Jenni78 on 24 December 2011 - 00:34 |
| Who cares, Chaz? Why does it matter if you're a distributor or not? I know you are far smarter than I, but I can't wrap my little pea brain around that for anything. This has got to be one of the most futile, asinine threads that's been on this in a while. It started out with a valid question, but then the usual suspects (who are really reminding me of people I would call "socialists" and I don't mean any one person in particular, just that there's an air of anti-capitalism in this thread that bugs me) jumped in the fray and tried to skew the whole thing and not stick to the OP's question. Parvo is irrelevant in this, but FYI, parvo can have an incubation period of as little as 3 days. The puppy could've been exposed ANYWHERE. Merry Christmas, all of you. I'm going to go give some money to some capitalists for some goods I'm probably paying more than I need to for, but if I'm happy with it, that's all that matters. |
by Chaz Reinhold on 24 December 2011 - 05:11 |
| Jenn, it does matter if you're a distributor. A distributor is in business with someone. If you are Joe Shmoe and you buy multiple dogs that are faulty, then you have to question yourself. If I am a distributor for Larry the light guy, he probably sends me multiple bulbs at once. It isn't like he sent one bulb at a time. Regardless, I don't care what anyone charges for their dogs. Have you read anything that proves otherwise? People can pay whatever they want, but when someone comes to a public board and asks if this is too much for a puppy, don't be surprised if people are honest. My posts in this thread were questioning Hans about breeding the "Old Style Czech Dog". |
by Chaz Reinhold on 24 December 2011 - 05:12 |
| Oh, happy holidays. |
by Prager on 24 December 2011 - 06:04 |
| I read this topic very carefully and wanted to share some facts of my experience with dogs I imported from Jinopo: 1. Jacko Jipo Me: Littermate of Jago Jipo Me. Died of Parvo 2 weeks after I received him from Czech Rep 2. Zasko z Jirkova Dvora: Littermate of stud Zen z Jirkova Dvora. Terrible HD and skin problems (Got replacement from breeder) 3. Catryn Jipo Me: Daughter of Reno Jipo Me. Bad HD. Asked for replacement and breeder did not refused but when I asked about a specific puppy they told me this pup was very good and it was not replacement quality. Still waiting for the right pup to replace Catryn. 4. Numa Jipo Me: Daughter of Piko Bret Bett. Really bad Skin Problems, demodectic mange and immunological disease. 5. A od Roubenky: Has Panus 6. Niel z Dvorakova Sadu: Son of Atila z Kociciho Dvora. So far is perfect. Now SchH1 and Kkl You read the topic very carefully but your conclusions are very sloppy. I'll go point by point here . 1.Parvo. Incubation period is according to MERCK VET MANUAL 3-8 days. You had the pup for 14 days . Thus it is almost sure taht the pup got parvo at your location, from local source. You can hardly blame JINOPO for that. 2. a/Skin problems: Just skin problems? This interesting a diagnosis which is totally lacking any specificity and based on that we ahve here dirsct accusation of the poor genetics of JINOPO dogs on International forum. Is it possible that it was caused by environment, bacteria , parasites and so on? Aren't you too quick to blame genetics and the breeder? 2. b/Terrible HD. Another interested diagnoses. HD is always possible but says who? Can we see the x rays. 3. Bad HD Same as above. 4. Demodicosis Skin problem caused by demodicosis are not necessarily hereditary. Demodex is mite - common ( you have it in your eye brows) parasite which injects chemical into the host where this chemical causes to shut down the defensive immune system of the host which protect it against demodex. Thus if the dog is overwhelmed by large numbers of this mite then the dogs immune system is shot down by it more and more. Thus in my book to say that demodex is of hereditary origin is akin to say that flees and ticks are of hereditary origin. There are 2 types of Demodex: Localized caused by infestation of quarters. Which may over grow in rare instances into Generalized demodex. This rare generalized form may possibly be of hereditary origin the( generalized form of it). However according to Merck: The pathogenesis of demodicosis is complex and not completely understood; Thus to blame heredity may be prudent but definitely not proven fact. Actually far from it. 5. Panus on VetInfo site it says and I quote:" The causes that lead to pannus are not fully known." and than it states that it may be of hereditary origin. However the treatment is done in a way,... let throw spaghetti on the wall and see what will stick. They are anti bacterial (!!), anti viral (!!)anti Mycotic=anti fungal(!!) and removal of any mechanical irritants and then it states that it may be caused by sun in high elevations and by the water masses and snow due to high ultra violet rays. Thus bacteria , fungus, virus, UV rays mechanical irritant and maybe heredity. Thus let's blame JINOPO breeding program. Pease!!! Give me a physical brake here! 6. dog is perfect. Prager Hans |
Prager by Prager on 24 December 2011 - 06:18 |
| Schferhunden : Hello Horand--and 33% had HD Well this does not match pragers statment How much is that worth it to you in the world where HD in GSDs is around 50%!!!! We run during that period of time 1% or less. In last 10 years we had about 3%-4%. Show me a breeder who can match that in as many pups as we have. Can I let this silliness stand? So if you buy just one dog from JINOPO and he/she is dysplastic, then you can claim that JINOPO produces 100% dysplasia. Is this a crazy talk or what? Even if the claim is truth, you can not make any statistical conclusions from 6 dogs!!!! And you saying elsewhere here about my statements that they are aimed at gullible people? Please forgive me, but I guess yours are aimed at really, really, uneducated people, or people with IQ of a rock. Kettle calling pot black? Prager Hans |
by Prager on 24 December 2011 - 06:31 |
| And one more thing. Please ALLOW ME TO MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR FOR YOU OF LOWER CAPABILITY OF UNDERSTANDING WRITTEN WORD. Or, maybe, some here believe that 1000 times repeated lie becomes the truth? ( As Josef Goebbels liked to say.) Jinopo or AlpineK9 (me) does not sell 8 weeks old pups for $3000 !!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a price of some breeder in GB whom I do not know personally and who imports 16 weeks or older pups from JINOPO after they went through extensive and expensive quarantine process, which includes boarding, socialization, immunization , titer testing and multiple transportation and including shipping of a 16 weeks old or older from Czech to GB which costs 800-1000 pounds =$1560,+ 14% sales TAX (WHP) on a price of the pup and so on. How much do you think such 16 week old pup should cost? Have you ever actually try to ship a pup to GB? Call some shipping company and you will see.!!! Prager Hans |
by Prager on 24 December 2011 - 06:40 |
| Also some say that our pups are just average. Well to that I say it is hard to know, since even extraordinary pup can be destroyed by improper socialization, training and upkeep. Many people all over the world and from all sectors of life and who know how to train dogs well actually believe that our pups are of highest quality. I have literally thousands of thanking letters on my file and many of them on my website. Go look. I guess Czech dogs are so popular all over the world only because they are only average. OH well, what can I say? Sounds like someone is jealous.... Prager Hans |
by Chaz Reinhold on 24 December 2011 - 06:41 |
| Hans, according to you, the incubation period for parvo is up to 8 days. Did his pup die or was diagnosed at day 14? |
by Prager on 24 December 2011 - 07:10 |
| Chaz it is obvious that you are spending extra ordinary time to prove me wrong. However I do not mind to humor you and I will answer you. Not according to me as you state, but according to Merck Veterinary Manual. Let's keep that straight. Your question is inconsequential, because some pups dies in 3 -5 days and some dies within hours of displaying symptoms and in case of CPV-2C strain which attacks the circulatory system before the digestive system, the pup may die of shock before any or very little symptoms occur. Also I would like to say that these days the CPV is more virulent thus incubation period is usually on the shorter end of the spectrum. Prager Hans |
by Chaz Reinhold on 24 December 2011 - 13:43 |
| Hans, bubby( line from Diehard), I'm not trying to prove you wrong. If that were the case, I'd simply do it. This is a message board and some believe that any garbage that comes out of ones fingers, is the truth. You see, Hans, these boards are to edumicate as much as anything else. |
by joanro on 24 December 2011 - 14:55 |
| According to OFA the statistics for HD in the GSD from 1974 through Dec 2010 was ONLY 19%, no where does OFA say what Guru Hans blaa blaaaaaa blaaaaaa from Jinopo- Blazona claims is 50% ! So just more misrepresentation with false information for the purpose of brainwashing the "stupid Americans ." Despots use propaganda accompanied with pictures to convince their subjects of the validity of their BS. Copping (and I did not misspell copping) pictures from books without providing references is not proof of anything substantial. They're just pictures. Taking personal credit for every GOOD DOG which came from Jinopo before the conversion to Jinop-Blazona is a good example of what an egomaniac is. Any dog of poor quality coming from Jinopo- Blazona ( I assume this is the name now of the business crated by HB) is of course blamed on the "stupid Americans" who, following the reasoning of HB , were stupid enough to buy the dog from them in the first place. HD does not exist if testing is not done. Anybody with access can publish any results they wish in order to manipulate public information. As far as Grim goes, instead of SATURATING the breed with him in a futile attempt to recreate him, why don't you dig his bones up again and get some DNA from any fur that still exists, and CLONE him. The demise within any breed of every species domesticated has been the misguided breeding practice of saturation with one individual animal. Attempting to justify the realization that every dog in your kennel contains the same dog by claiming you meant to do it because he was so " perfect " is denying the fact that you sold ALL your GREAT dogs to the "stupid Americans". Oh well, as we say in the south ( in other words, tough S !) |
by aaykay on 24 December 2011 - 16:21 |
| According to OFA the statistics for HD in the GSD from 1974 through Dec 2010 was ONLY 19%, no where does OFA say what Guru Hans blaa blaaaaaa blaaaaaa from Jinopo- Blazona claims is 50% ! So just more misrepresentation with false information for the purpose of brainwashing the "stupid Americans ." Despots use propaganda accompanied with pictures to convince their subjects of the validity of their BS. Copping (and I did not misspell copping) pictures from books without providing references is not proof of anything substantial. They're just pictures. Taking personal credit for every GOOD DOG which came from Jinopo before the conversion to Jinop-Blazona is a good example of what an egomaniac is. Any dog of poor quality coming from Jinopo- Blazona ( I assume this is the name now of the business crated by HB) is of course blamed on the "stupid Americans" who, following the reasoning of HB , were stupid enough to buy the dog from them in the first place. HD does not exist if testing is not done. Anybody with access can publish any results they wish in order to manipulate public information. As far as Grim goes, instead of SATURATING the breed with him in a futile attempt to recreate him, why don't you dig his bones up again and get some DNA from any fur that still exists, and CLONE him. The demise within any breed of every species domesticated has been the misguided breeding practice of saturation with one individual animal. Attempting to justify the realization that every dog in your kennel contains the same dog by claiming you meant to do it because he was so " perfect " is denying the fact that you sold ALL your GREAT dogs to the "stupid Americans". Oh well, as we say in the south ( in other words, tough S !) Sorry, I did not get the purpose behind the rant in the post right above mine (quoted above). Using statistics to bolster one's view is a time-tested tactic followed by one-and-all.......can be used both ways, by either party, right ? I think there is some useful stuff at the bottom of the post (saturating the pedigree with one dog being misguided etc) that I fully agree with, but personal attacks and rants rarely impress people, least of all, myself. |
aaykay by jeysalim on 24 December 2011 - 16:28 |
| Hi, are you implying that we should not buy any dogs/pups from jinopo nor Hans Blabla? I am sure the OP is a little confused. |
jeysalim by joanro on 24 December 2011 - 16:42 |
| In the spirit of Jeff Foxworthy : if you don't get the rant you just might be a ..............?:( The statistics have to be just that, statistics, and not just an arbitrary number. And not bolstering a view, but stating fact. Not intended to impress, exercising American right of free speech. |
by joanro on 24 December 2011 - 16:47 |
| Not implying that at all and OP is certainly not confused. Any reference to " stupid Americans" is a term any one who has known HB for any length of time has heard him use with much disdain. |
by Carlin on 24 December 2011 - 17:02 |
| Capitalism sucks; always has to be a "losing class". Since the '70's the income of the middle and upper middle class in the US has risen just 18%, (not adjusted for inflation), while the income of the top 1% of US households has increased by 285%. That being said, it seems to be the best thing going anywhere and it's tough to complain when you live in the richest country in the world. As a result, the going rate of anything is simply what people are willing to pay; supply and demand. Though not really sure, I suspect that the more bull**** bred showline labrashepherds that are produced and mixed with the remaining wl blood, the more that wl blood will command, especially when the latest trend seems to be for the sl breeders to use wl dogs to fix their messes. |
Carlin
Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!