German Shepherd Dog > let's compare something (30 replies)
by cphudson on 19 October 2011 - 19:51
|Charity beautiful dog & daughter. What was his pedigree?|
I use to own SL & WL GSD's many years ago. I use to combine the lines & have great success.
The offspring general were still able to work, some could be shown, & other live as family pets or do fun competitive dog trails.
But over the years the the distinction between the lines grew & it became more difficult to get the same results.
It would be nice to have the different selections within one litter again. I do see many WL that are breath talking & would do well in shows.
Our breed needs help to preserve it & is going to take all GSD dedicated breeders / fanciers no matter which line you prefer to do it.
by Fenrir on 19 October 2011 - 20:42
|I can say that I don't know many clubs that don't have both lines, in fact many has mixed SL/WL dogs even my smaller club does. Also not all working line people or show line people forget the importance of the others features. Point in case my bitch's grandsire Paska Vom Salztalblick is a famous V rated working line dog with amazing structure and he threw it too. I think in the end both sides want a dog that does it's job well and has a good temperament too.|
by Louise M. Penery on 19 October 2011 - 21:03
|One does not have to be a WDA member to compete in thir activities.|
You have no need to switch from UScA to WDA. However, if you wish to title and have Ulf breed-surveyed, you will have to belong to one of these organizations. Just be sure that all titles are with SV judges. When my WDA membership expires, I may not renew, until I acquire a young puppy (hopefully, a son of my youngest male). The only organization I currently belong to is the SV.
14 1/2 years is a very long life for a GSD. I haven't been able to get one much past 10.
You ought to check your bloodlines. Longevity, constitutional vigor, and freedom from cancer appear to be genetically predisposed.
My current two, titled, SL males are nearly 13 years old and 10.5 years old. Neither has experienced EPI or SIBO. Their hips/elbows are OFA certified. They are DM negative. The eat a raw diet and have no current vaccines. The enjoy robust, good health, The younger remains extremely athletic. His eye CERF exam was normal at 8 years. His sire, Ursus Batu was 14 when he died.
Out of my last litters (half German, have American--I called them :"half-breeds"), there were 4 males that lived to be past the age of 14. Their maternal grandsire was past 14 when he died. My last 2 females were nearly 13 years old when they were euthanized due to (1) lung cancer (metastasized mammary gland cancer) and (2) hemangiosarcoma.
My oldest GSD female (AKC Ch. UD) lived until she was past 15. She produced 5 litters totalling 45 live pups between the ages of 5 and 9. She was euthanized after weaning her last litter. Her brother (an AKC Ch. UDT) live until he was nearly 13. One of her sons lived until he was past 14.
My last AKC/SV litters all went back to these lines (primarily post-WWII German lines)
The main reason I got out of AKC, Am-bred lines was due to health problems. After I had bred myself into a corner, I had nowhere to turn except to German SLs.
The oldest GSD I know personally today is a spayed, 14-year-old, SL bitch.
by charity on 19 October 2011 - 21:53
Can you show in UScA and WDA events with only an SV membership?
I was thinking of dropping the WDA to join the Buffalo club.
But I have heard of couples who split membership and co-own a dog. ex: husband belongs to UScA and wife to WDA, the dog is co-owned by both therefore he/she can be shown in either clubs events.
Sorry for my ignorance but I have been away from the scene for years due to family illness.....not up on all the latest rules and regs.
these things may be genetically predisposed but s..t still happens. I think it also helps that your dogs are on raw and you don't overdo the vaccines. Thank goodness more people are doing that and DNA and other screenings as you are.
Lobo was a looker, that's for sure.
I have always questioned whether Lobo's pedigree was really Lobo's pedigree. Mainly because it is strong working lines and as you can see from the pictures he appears to be a show line. He was from Hungary
. ... The K9 unit worked exclusively with a vendor in Ohio for many years. I know he dealt with only 2 or 3 kennels in Europe. He told us about black market dogs....dogs that were stolen or dogs with papers that were stolen, forged, lost, etc.
I don't think he was implying this about Lobo...but who knows?
Being that he was a police dog, and there was no intention to show or breed, we did not worry about the papers. Much to my chagrin now.
His pedigree is registered with the MEOE Budapest. His sire is listed as Farug Cega and his dam is FEKETE-Brillians Phillis. I do not speak Hungarian so I'm not sure what the rest of the document is saying.
We attended a NAPWDA seminar in N.C. shortly after Lobo came to live with us. One of the instructors was from the RCMP. He claimed that dog's with Cega' s father, Lido Jamirex, and mother Chery Jamirex, were highly sought after by their K9.
Anyway....Lobo goes back to Held v. Ritterberg on his dad's side.
I can appreciate your frustration over the widening gap between the 2 lines. A few people locally have dabbled with crossing wl with sl I'm not sure they really knew what they were doing since they were selling the pups as pets.
I had a bi color years ago that was a cross between AKC show and German working lines....very athletic, very driven, good defense and easy to train as well. She lived to 13.
Yes Fenrir I agree....I want a dog who can do its job and can still live in the house with the family and not be a liability.
And don't ya know....all my dogs were/are just the most gorgeous creatures you have ever seen!!!!
by charity on 19 October 2011 - 21:55
just looked up your dog's grand daddy......WOW!
by Blitzen on 19 October 2011 - 23:30
Thanks for the advice, Louise. I'll try to do better next time. I'ts nice that your dogs live so long without any health issues ever.
by Chaz Reinhold on 20 October 2011 - 00:11
|Well, I'll be the party pooper. I find zero beauty in showline GSDs. Most of them are roach backed and walk on their hocks. I've almost come to despise the look of the black and tan w saddle, because it has come to symbolize what I hate about the breed, AND DOGS IN GENERAL. Before the showline lovers get their panties in a bunch, I'd like to say that I'm not exactly thrilled about working lines either. I see more below average dogs that I wouldn't own than dogs that impress me.|
by Louise M. Penery on 20 October 2011 - 00:56
|Can you show in UScA and WDA events with only an SV membership?|
Absolutely--just no breed surveys. I showed my boy int the USA SS this past May with ionly an SV membership. Did have to pay a $35 surcharge but cheaper than re-joing USA, I am showing at NASS with only an SV membership. My WDA membership (not required) will expire on10/31.
Thanks for the advice, Louise. I'll try to do better next time. I'ts nice that your dogs live so long without any health issues ever.I"ve been lucky and have done my homework over the years. Good luck. I know that the olderbitch you acquired from Helen died this past spring and that you have a female descendant of her. Good luck with her. Will you be at NASS?
by charity on 20 October 2011 - 13:29
by GSDNewbie on 20 October 2011 - 17:42
|lol you have not hijacked it and I have been rather busy last couple days, sorry. Yes, I am east coast. I left Pa and moved to Knoxville, TN almost two years ago. I have shown WDA NASS before I showed at the UScA Sieger. I have felt they are near about the same in those venues. I am mulling the idea of a co owner on Ulf to hit both sides of he field. I think it is ridiculous to have to use that option. I think I enjoyed the UScA sieger more than the NASS though and would like to stay with them. There is a show in WDA coming up that I would like to compete at lol. Any handlers showing on east coast that wants to handle my boy in his shows? I prefer that he has same handler and that has a good working relationship as his main purpose is as my service dog, his show wins are a bonus. I wish the repair on my leg made it so I could just run him myself.... would simplify so much lol. I do intend to breed survey him. I feel he is the embodiment in EVERY way of what a gsd should be. He is not banana, or hump back either He has drive! I would not have been ashamed showing up on the job with him were I still working dogs.|
by sonora on 20 October 2011 - 23:12
To all of you , first this is a fantastic thread .A very big thank you
for creating awareness of what our beautiful breed is all about.
Many are in love with the sport, not with the breed.
Many mongrels in my country look better than the Malinois,
but when it comes to work and training,thats where the comparison stops.
The malinois are a 100% better , and than some.
I believe this comes about by selective breeding
for the required qualities,(ie for herding , police/security, SAR, guide dog ,etc).for that will endear and perpetuate
the breed.Thats what happen to the show line.
The s / l is very strict about disqualifying faults.
and they are now even adding controll and bidabillity
in the Sieger Show.
If you love the sport play it, as long as
the GSD achieves the Golden middle