German Shepherd Dog > 8 month old GSD puppy PTS after only owning for 19 days !!! (105 replies)
by sachsenwolf on 15 October 2011 - 13:15
|I am very sorry for what happened. My jaw hit the floor after reading what you wrote as I am shocked a new buyer would be so incredibly impulsive without consulting you or caring how this would affect you (obviously you had her much longer than they did). This post caused me to immediately revamp my contract. Thank you for that.|
My question to you would be is there a physical contract, and if so, can you post your terms here? If not, what is implied on your website or in your verbal agreement? For me, I have a physical contract in place that requires films sent to me (via e-mail is fine) to approve position, then to the OFA, AND at my discretion I can have them read or done again by my vet as well. I do not guarantee against Mild HD as hips can tighten with age, positioning or heat cycle can be a factor, as well as simple human opinions differing.
I think, even with a verbal agreement that you will replace/refund if the dog has HD, you can still tell them that you need proof and you will require both the x-rays they had taken AND all her health records from the vet (have them make copies and mail directly to you - should include a log about euthanizing her and her age/breed so you have a good idea that it was her and this happened). Tell them without said proof, which their vet already has and shouldn't be any trouble, you couldn't even consider a compensation. After you have them submitted to the OFA and posted here to be read by our "panal of experts" you can decide if she legitimately had or would have had crippling HD and what you want to do about it.
I hope this gets resolved and personally, I hope you don't pay them anything. If they were so concerned about HD, then they should have had her filmed before buying her. Of course there are so many other things that can happen to a pup that appears like it could be their hips... Pano, pulled muscle, etc. They didn't give a care to your personal feelings, or ask that you take her back instead. While they may have gone through an ordeal in the past with HD, or with a breeder not taking back a dog for all we know, this was over the top IMO. At the very least, they should have gotten a second opinion when it came to this pup's life.
by Samaris on 15 October 2011 - 14:55
Before compensating for some fault/ a dog put down because of something like that, one should always really have complete written veterinary document containing dog identification ja stating the facts of the fault and possible end result (and costs) as proof.
Anybody can claim anything. It does not prove anything. People lie and come up with all kinds of ways trying to get money out of each other - all the time. It's really quite awful, but that's just the way it is :(
by dogshome9 on 16 October 2011 - 09:43
|This is the xray that had my puppy PTS|
by dogshome9 on 16 October 2011 - 09:51
|Sorry correct way up. Please be honest as to your thoughts|
by cphudson on 16 October 2011 - 13:04
|I'm very sorry this happen to your puppy. The x-ray is very poor quality, & do not show her knees so most likely the puppy wasn't place in correct position for the x-rays. An x-ray like this should have not been the deciding factor to pts a young puppy. The hips would be difficult to get a correct reading of hip quality for me. But they don't look that bad for a puppy.|
by sachsenwolf on 16 October 2011 - 13:19
|I positioning isn't correct and the image quality makes it difficult to see what is really going on. But from the looks of it, one hip is okay (dog wasn't flat so it's hard to say just how shallow it is) and the other appears to have some flattening of the head (sorry). At the point it is right now I agree that I would have waited until the dog were older and much better films before making any official conclusions. Here's examples of what clear HD looks like at around this age, for comparision. BTW, found them on the web and don't know who are the owners or even the breed, just age.|
by sachsenwolf on 16 October 2011 - 13:25
|I want to try putting yours in again as it seems blurry above. Hope you don't mind.|
by VonIsengard on 16 October 2011 - 15:28
|These hips are in no way, shape, or form a death knell for a young dog. How devastating. Limping?! Probably just pano! Wouldn't be the first time a dog was pts for it.|
I have a bitch here who is OFA moderate HD. Earned her UD at 3 and her RE at 7. She is now 9 and still happy and healthy. Shame on the buyer, shame on the vet. Something here does not add up.
My contracts specifically states I am given to the opportunity to obtain a second opinion. I suppose I should add to it that euthanasia before this voids the contract. Would you consider privately sharing the name of these buyers? I would certainly not want to sell them a dog.
by SitasMom on 16 October 2011 - 21:42
Sita went from this at 8 months - note the right hips looks like its flattening theres lots of laxity and left hip looks like its too shallow? Vet said mild at best.
sorry for your loss
by Bhaugh on 16 October 2011 - 23:47
|Someone asked how people can do this without even questioning. Some of the questions I get or hear at adoption events is SO DUMB I just have to shake my head. Im not surprised that a family would take what the vet said without question and put the dog down. Most of us question Anything a vet says but the average person just follows along. And for something like this, it was tragic.|
I dont think the hips are that bad. Ive seen far worse. The part I dont get is why bother to spay the dog if the hips were so bad? Why would the vet not just call these people (if this is even what happened) and say " The dogs hips are............." Unfortunately no one really knows what happened since it seems no one wants to give you a straight answer. Why black out the info on the film? Why not return the dog (if she had hip issues) and ask for a refund or a replacement?
The first thing that came to my mind was....did they actually put the dog down? Ive turned vets into the board. Don't hold you breath for a positive outcome. Mine was some time ago so maybe it will go better for you. I received NO satisfaction from doing it.
I would require written records on the dog and you most likely will need the intervention of an attorney UNLESS the owners requested them for you. Without a supeona the vet does not have to help you. Keep us updated on your progress please.
by dogshome9 on 17 October 2011 - 22:50
|Thank you Sachsenwolf for the improvement and SitasMom, thanks for your example of how the hips can change at this young age.|
I have spoken to one of the radiology specialist vets who reads and grades our dogs here in Australia about Ricci and I will continue to fight for her xray to be sent to him.
I will be back when I have more news.
by windwalker18 on 18 October 2011 - 00:15
|Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... across the board!!|
Working for a Vet for 25 years I can tell you some of the ridiculous situations that arrise. If the owner comes in and demands the dog be euathnized the vet CAN suggest that they contact the breeder... BEG for permission to place the puppy themselves... REFUSE, knowing that the client will just go down the road to the next vet and have the dog PTS... or comply with the owners demand and cash the check. There's no set rule I know of with the AVMA stating that perfectly healthy dogs can't/shouldn't be euthanized.
Owners also often don't LISTEN to what they're told... the word Dysplasia, or "Not perfect hips" hits their ears to mean you have a cripple here and were probably stuck with her by a breeder who just wanted to dump her. I've heard owners bug and bug to get something said that they can redefine to justify a quick/easy way out for them. At the VERY LEAST the purchaser should have contacted you as the breeder and asked to return the pup to you.
We had a client with a Bordor Collie who played with the dog on their bed every night before they turned in. Happy playful dog, then the family had a baby... and in their brilliance chose the bed as the easiest place to change the baby! DUHHHHHHHHH.... they got very upset at the dog as it was "Leaping on the bed and attacking the baby". They brought Rocky in to be euthanized... I convinced them to let me find a home for him fortunately, and he went on to become BFF to a 3 year old child the he herded away from the pool, highway and River for the rest of his life. Sad for your pup that there wasn't someone there to offer her a future. I doubt you'll ever get the purchaser to understand that they did anything wrong.
by dogshome9 on 18 October 2011 - 01:21
|Windwalker, I was here for her, all they had to do was ring and I would have driven down to pick her up and give them their money back.|
When I asked why they didn't call me they said "Quote" that she had already been in pain for the 9 months of her life and that had they returned her then I would have only pup her to sleep myself. They obviously don't know me " I work as a vet nurse and it gives me pain each and every time I have to deal with helping a dog over the bridge, I cry with their owners!!
Had she just come back to me (where she had never ever been in pain, she loved to play with her mom with a 20ft tug rope, chase her ball and her favourite thing was to carry huge pieces of firewood home from our daily walk), I would have had her checked by my vet, rexrayed and had them evaluated by a specialist. I would not have sold a puppy if I had thought that she had a problem.
by windwalker18 on 18 October 2011 - 08:45
by dogshome9 on 18 October 2011 - 10:43
|I have asked their vet a simple Yes / No question about the truth of statements made in the initial email from the buyers and so far no answer, I guess they are being very prudent regarding their client. I have asked the buyer again regarding a radiology specialist reviewing the xray but last night they said they were awaiting a response from their lawyer so I also answered that I was awaiting a response from mine also.|
When I checked the primary email and the receipt from their vet only yesterday they actually had Ricci PTS 10 days before informing me so in fact they had only had her for 12 days.
Don't know why it took them so long to inform me???
by charlie319 on 18 October 2011 - 16:06
|For the crooked vet it is a win-win if he tells them it is dysplastic. If they're idiots, euthanasia and cremation disposal should run a few hundred dollars and the spay on a female is also a couple of hundred dollars. I would check with the authorities to see if there have been any complaints about this vet or his clinic.|
by Fenrir on 18 October 2011 - 20:50
|Wow, this is royally Effed, wow....So um, they want money AND they took the pups life with NO telling you before?? O.o Um wow, I need to have my wife add this to her contract for her cat breeding and will have to add it to mine when I start breeding no killing before letting me know or you lose all rights...I am so,so,so sorry for dog and you this is just too bad. :(|
by windwalker18 on 18 October 2011 - 22:46
|A lot will ride on any guarantee you ofer written or inferred upon the time of sale. If you are specific on what the proceedure is to determine any refund or replacement involved with a dysplastic puppy you'll be in better shape than if you have a vague statement such as "puppy is fully guaranteed against dysplasia'... When I was breeding my contract required that any x-rays had to be viewed by and evaluated by my own vet and/or OFA. And that the dog would be returned to get a replacement. In reality on the occasion that I had a puppy with any genetic issue I gave a replacement if spayed/altered (on a show breeding animal) One pup I had with a cardiac problem (Aortic stenosis) I replaced 4 years later when the dog passed.|
Too many people don't realize that it's the teeth they put into their contracts that protect them and the client. I hope that this turns out well for you... and am very sorry about the pup. Things like this shouldn't happen, but unfortunately do.
by GSDtravels on 18 October 2011 - 23:34
|dogshome9, I'm so sorry for your loss. What a horrible situation and the loss of a dog for no good reason. My heart breaks for you.|
by dogshome9 on 18 October 2011 - 23:42
Unfortunately I don't actually have a contract that new owners have to sign. I do though have paper work that I go through with puppy buyers and included is a statement that says
" If you have a problem with your new puppy be it health, training or behavior then PLEASE CONTACT ME FIRST, IF YOUR VETERINARIAN SUGGESTS ANY TYPE OF SURGERY FOR YOUR PUPPY OR A PROCEDURE OF ANY KIND OTHER THAN VACCINATION PLEASE CONTACT ME. This I say over and over again before they leave but unfortunately most are only thinking of getting home with their new baby and not listening.
Believe me though I am in the procedure of drawing up a contract now, I read it every day and make alterations and subtractions ( I will make sure that this NEVER happens again to a puppy that I have bred ). I will also document this story of justice for Ricci " Cossavane Smartie Pants " and add it to every puppy folder no matter what the out come be it good or bad.