German Shepherd Dog > GSD on the way out?? Here is the article (76 replies)
by Sunsilver on 13 October 2011 - 19:02
|Here's what I said....might as well say it here, too.|
Sometimes I think of changing breeds, but then I look at how badly f**ked up and deformed many of the breeds in that documentary were (e.g., the peke that can barely walk, and needed surgery so it could breathe without collapsing, the bulldog, that can no longer reproduce itself without help, and those poor Cavalier King Charles spaniels, that suffer from syringomelia because their brains are too big for their skulls; and I think, "Well, we're not there yet!" But we do need to be on our guard, and look at the changes that have happened in the last few decades, and ask ourselves: "Is this REALLY benefiting the breed?"
Remember that bassett hound with so many wrinkles that it resembled a shar-pei, and whose belly was so low-slung it was dragging on the ground? To the non-show person, it appeared grotesque and ugly. When the interviewer mentioned that the bassett hadn't always looked that way, the judge replied, "Well, yes, but we breed better dogs now!"
How many times have I heard that from GSD people, when they explain the changes that have happened to the GSD in the last few decades!
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 19:24
|"When the RCMP is willing to pay $5,000 to import a Czech GSD, instead of using dogs bred in this country or the States, there's GOT to be something wrong somewhere"|
GOT to be? This is not logical.
Do you mean $5,000 for a Czech pup? No
Would americans and Canadians buy imported GSDs and train them in NA?
What is the hourly rate in the Czech Republic?
The popularity of the GSD is like #2-4 at any time.
It will take a lot for the Mal to become popular.
There are reasons why the Mal will never be as popular as the GSD. The Mal is too high energy and too vocal for the suburban home. They are too atheletic so they are more inclined to escape from confinement. Six foot fence won't do; this alone will suppress the popularity of the Mals. Most people will not want to deal with this.
by Duderino on 13 October 2011 - 19:40
|Personally, I don't want the breed to become more popular, in fact I don't think that half of the people that currently own them should. I would rather they were less popular but in the hands of people who understand them and work them. THEY DON'T BELONG AS PETS. So keeping them out of the "suburban homes" and day care centers and dog parks is just fine with me.|
by Sunsilver on 13 October 2011 - 20:35
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 20:44
|All dogs in the world are first and foremost pets.|
If you are a dog, do you want to be a pet?
This is now 2011, with the exception of SAR and drug detections, and some other perhaps, most "work" for a dog is due to the perception that a dog's life is worth less than a human life.
It is not to say anything negative about "work", but it is a matter of universal or broader perspective.
"Work" by a dog has far less actual utility than many devotees of dog sports care to admit. Dog sport can be fun and give a certain satisfaction, but one should not be provincial about the superiority of dog ownership for sport over that for companionship.
Many things have cause and effect. In the USA, we cherish freedom excessively perhaps. We want as few rules as possible and as much right to bear arms as possible. This is an additional reason why "protection" from a dog is worth less in the USA.
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 20:52
|"Duderino, poplularity has spelled the death knell for many breeds."|
The terminology in this thread is very strange.
The GSDs are dying out because they are popular.
Yes, I do get the logic. The "breed" dies.
The breed GSD has died for a long time ago, to use this line of logic.
The S in GSD has pretty much died, so the breed GSD should die and has died.
It is a provincial mindset to claim that "work" is as good "herd" or "pet" is not "work".
We have field and show lines of Labs and many other breeds of dog. It takes some one stubborn to lament on this.
I do like to see the "working line" of GSD continue as a variety of the breed; and I think it does.
by Sunsilver on 13 October 2011 - 20:53
|All dogs in the world are first and foremost pets.|
In many countries which are not as urbanized as N. America and Europe, that is not true. Dogs have jobs, and are not treated as family members/pets as they are here. If you saw the conditions dogs live in in Africa, the Middle East, and even as close to home as Trinidad, you would be shocked. Feral dogs roam the streets at will in many of these places, and their lives are worth very little.
Also, when you say dogs are first and foremost pets, you are forgetting one of the most important things our breed founder said about the GSD towards the end of his life:
"Take this trouble for me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim.”
by Duderino on 13 October 2011 - 21:07
|It's the microwave mentality of the "whatever" video game generation of America. Sorry, my dogs are not pets, they don't climb on the couch or sleep in our bed and conversely I don't sleep in their runs or climb in their crates. It's an agreement that we have come to over the years. Hey, if you want to make the GSD into a pet, which in my (and many others) opinion is contributing to the ruination of the breed, you go right ahead, it's not my chosen breed but stay away from the Malinois when you can no longer find a healthy dog that has the drive/willingness to work.|
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 21:08
|"breed founder "|
I do even care much about what the founding fathers of this country intended, I mean the few old white men.
It should not come as a shock to you that I don't care what the founder of the "breed" actually wanted 100 years ago.
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 21:12
|What I like the most about the GSD?|
Its appearance has wildness in it but it is also a fully domesticated affectionate companion animal.
There is a lot of simplication in this description. The GSD has charecter, aloof and not sociable with strangers.
What Max wanted is irrelevent.
Different times different places
by Duderino on 13 October 2011 - 21:12
|See what I mean?? It's the "I don't care it doesn't effect me" attitude of modern America. Sickening isn't it?|
by Duderino on 13 October 2011 - 21:16
|Sure am glad you have a different breed. Apparently being "High in the Desert" has damaged the prefrontal cortex of your brain.|
by Sunsilver on 13 October 2011 - 21:22
I find many breeders and competitors in the dog world are very short sighted. They know very little of the breed's origins, and seem to think that the way things are now are the way they have always been. When you show them pictures of what the dog breed used to look like, they shrug and say, "Yes, but what we have now is BETTER!"
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 21:26
All dogs belong as pets if they have a choice.
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 21:43
"I find many breeders and competitors in the dog world are very short sighted. They know very little of the breed's origins, and seem to think that the way things are now are the way they have always been. When you show them pictures of what the dog breed used to look like, they shrug and say, "Yes, but what we have now is BETTER!"
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 21:56
|"In many countries which are not as urbanized as N. America and Europe, that is not true. Dogs have jobs, and are not treated as family members/pets as they are here. If you saw the conditions dogs live in in Africa, the Middle East, and even as close to home as Trinidad, you would be shocked. Feral dogs roam the streets at will in many of these places, and their lives are worth very little."|
If you were a dog, would you rather be a pet in America or a feral dog in Africa?
Dogs must have jobs in some places I am sure. This is a fact that should be lamented, not the reality in America that dogs are mostly companion animals.
by ggturner on 13 October 2011 - 21:59
|Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't start the post. |
Wouldn't dream of it.
Certainly the SV cares very little about the current or future condition of the breed and hiding your head in the sand does nothing. The first step towards correcting a problem is admitting you have one.
I'm not a breeder, but I agree that there are too many gsd breeders out there who are harming the breed. The same thing happens to many breeds. Very sad.
Still would like to see if there are any valid stats on mals vs gsds in LE and the military.
by HighDesertGSD on 13 October 2011 - 22:08
|"Sure am glad you have a different breed."|
I have the GPD, the German primordial dog.
You have the GWD, the German Working dog.
Who has the GSD?
You don't have the GSD, I believe. Do you do much S in the GSD?
Why do people get so upset over a name?
What is so upsetting about field Lab and the show lab, or the working line GSD and the showline GSD?
I have to say the the mindset of some people are very perplexing. Some people are very stubbord and opinionated.
by Duderino on 13 October 2011 - 22:11
|To me you represent what is ruining the foundation of America,,,,,,selfishness. Maybe you should talk to the Border Patrol agents who work the Mexican border and see what they think about the idea that we will no longer need drug detection dogs in the future. I can only assume that you have no need for explosive detection dogs in your world either? Pardon me I forget myself, let's just all hold hands and get together for a group hug.|
by ggturner on 13 October 2011 - 22:20
|Dogs are definitely needed for drug detection, bomb detection, SAR, therapy, apprehending criminals, etc. I don't see how they could ever be replaced! In fact, I think we need them now more than ever!|