German Shepherd Dog > can untained dogs really protect? (118 replies)
can untained dogs really protect?
by gsds30281 on 29 September 2011 - 21:46
Could an untrained,well bred wl gsd protect you?
by Ibrahim on 29 September 2011 - 21:53
|I always wondered about this muself, I don't have much actual experience with wl gsd but if it is well bred, owner protective, bond with the owner is strong provided it perceives the threat to its owner it shall protect otherwise it is useless.|
by beetree on 29 September 2011 - 21:54
|Only if you deserve it. And you'll never know for sure until the situation is upon you.|
by Red Sable on 29 September 2011 - 21:54
|Some will and do.|
by Slamdunc on 29 September 2011 - 21:55
|Could Bruce Lee's son do karate with out training? Could Michael Jordan's son turn 18 and play pro basketball never having touched a basketball or shot a basket? He may have the genetics, but you won't know his potential or what you have with out training.|
by Gustav on 29 September 2011 - 21:59
|Some can and most can't. Most require training....there are those special dogs that have the disgression and the sand to back it up...not fear based but strong stopping power if they perceive a threat to family or territory. Very seldom seen these days without training.|
by Ibrahim on 29 September 2011 - 22:00
|Ohhhhh, how well said Jim and how true, I wish it could perform without training especially in areas where training is hard to get.|
by gsds30281 on 29 September 2011 - 22:27
|So a gsd with good nerves, and drives (like alot of well bred wl gsds have) would cower away from a threat just because they wouldnt know how to respond,because they were never trained?|
by vonissk on 29 September 2011 - 22:27
|I agree with all that has been said. Gustav you are absolutely right--I believe the dogs with no training that will protect are few and far inbetween. My boy is 3/4 working lines and 1/4 DDR--he is not oversized--he's very stocky and big boned and he loves me. He is almost 7 and I have had him since he was 10 wks old. He's not a hard tough dog or any of that. But there is no doubt in my mind if he felt like his family--me and the girl dogs--and his property needed to be protected he would. He has already threatened a couple of people and sort of nipped at one for making the wrong move--you know what that guy turned out to be no good--so I guess he reads people better than me. The only training he has ever had is OB, ring training and a little bitework when he was young. When he is in the car--he likes to ride in the front seat--if anyone comes to the window to talk to me--he stays in his seat but he watched them the whole time. I have had 2 PPDs before-a Czeck bitch and a Mali bitch and they were very well trained. But I never thought I would have a dog like him with no training............|
by Slamdunc on 29 September 2011 - 22:49
Who said cower. Please go back and re read my post, it is fairly self explanatory. I agree with Gustav as he always offers very sound posts. Naturally, your dog is the exception that is able to handle any situation with no problem and no training.
One thing I have learned over the years is that ANY dog can be backed with the proper stress and pressure. Trained dogs can handle this stress better and perform more reliably, it is a fact. I test and select green dogs for several Police Dept's and I can tell you the vast majority can not handle the stress I put on them in testing.
I realize that everyone thinks they have the dog that will protect them at all costs, my experience tells me something differently. If your dog is never tested you can only hope and will never know. Hopefully, you never need to find out.
by Teufel Hunde on 29 September 2011 - 23:39
|My last Shepherd (RIP)rose to the occasion when some guy tried to break in our house. He was in the back of the house trying to get in the basement.I came out the front door and told my dog to him to go get em....and he did. He brought him down as he was trying to get in the garage after he failed at the basement door. My son held him down while the dog hung on to his pants leg. When he stopped struggling both of them let up on him. The dog continued to bark and hold. When he tried to run/crawl up the back stairs, the dog grabbed him by the ass cheek and dragged him back down. He hid under the picnic bench until the police came. We found out from the cops he was a local drug addict probably looking for a place to sleep it off. I told the cops what happened and said I didn't want to press charges. They in return did nothing about the dog "assisting" with the situation.|
by vonissk on 30 September 2011 - 01:10
|Jim I understand exactly what you are saying. Honestly, since I have had PPDs before, I would feel a lot safer with a trained dog. But I do believe in what he has shown me, that he would protect me. And as you said hopefully I will never have to find out. One other thing that makes me think so too is the fact that he stays by my side and watches, He doesn't bark or growl or lunge--he just watches. Once when he did go after someone in the back yard, he never made a sound, just tore off and I called him to me--he reluctantly came because he knew he would be crated. Being as how he is stocky and big boned I would think just knocking someone down and standing over them would pretty much do the job. But ya never know. Don't tell him but I really do miss my girls..........|
by Nans gsd on 30 September 2011 - 02:16
|Well, in real life. I knew a fairly well trained bitch that flunked out on PPD. On the other hand, different dog (male) that would lay his life down for you just by someones untrustworthy actions not formally trained but trained himself; but would definitely protect at any given moment.|
HOwever, I do not feel a dog with that potential should be allowed to take that responsibility without proper training. In a real situation, my boy told me two different times what he would do if HE felt the need arised. I tried to change his attitude later in his life, about 6 years old on and found out that it was nearly impossible.
So the testing and training from an early age I feel is absolutely necessary if you are going to have a dog that protects or even think or want him to protect. train accordingly and start them with a responsible trainer that knows what the hell they are doing.
Great days everyone, Nan
by jmopaso on 30 September 2011 - 02:21
|My male is an IPO1 dog, as well as trained to dual purpose police k9 level. He gets to work a few times a month with our PPDA association. I have had one instance where his true colors came out.|
My kennels and horse barn are in the front of our property, (22 acres), about 250 feet off the road and the house is in the back, about 1000 feet off the road, just to give some perspective. We are in a fairly rural area, although our road has become pretty populated over the last few years. We have a lot more traffic since it was paved a few years ago as well.
One afternoon a few months ago, I was doing some chores at the barn, cleaning and such and had Grimm with me, as I like to do when I am out alone. A car came down the drive and pulled up right in front of the barn. It was an older Toyota, with a single male in the drivers seat, who rolled down the window and asked if Joe Blainey was here. I replied that we had no one by that name here. He started to crack open the door.
All along Grimm was plastered to my legs. He did not bark, he did not growl, he was just plastered and very focused, until the guy cracked open the door, he then turned to stand in front of me, bared his teeth and very audibly growled and began to move towards the car. The guy shut the car door and said thank you, backed out and left. I do not know what he would have done if the situation had progressed, but he was enough for tht guy.
by kt484 on 30 September 2011 - 02:31
|some will i got a blk lab mix who is now 3 that i had since he was 7weeks old. he anint good for schutzhund but he does akc obedience and if you crack a whip in front he shys sometimews but if some one comes and attack me o HE WILL BITE TRUST ME. when he was arond 1.5 years old sit was late and i had always told him to sit behind me(hes jet black too) so he gets up and has "that look" and some guy is coming almost attacking me i froze at first and said go or something and my dog bite him i ran home and my dog follwed. so it all depends|
by Nans gsd on 30 September 2011 - 02:39
|WOW: I love that story; my boy had a similar type personality; NOT one word if he was serious, no bark, or any warning would just dare the person to move forward or towards him or myself. BUT that is what I am talking about, I feel you need total control of that with a damn good aus or out command, my language for my boy was leave it and he stopped immediately. Worked for us. But in serious training the "OUT" command is definitely a critical command to learn for the dogs even for dogs without formal training. BOL Nan|
So my answer to the original post would be YES they can protect but it may not be what you think is appropriate under any given circumstance. Train, test and evaluate to your dogs fullest potential.
by Two Moons on 30 September 2011 - 04:06
Are you worthy of protection?
That is the real question.
I've seen mutts protect their masters, so I'm sure a GSD would.
Training has it's merits, that goes without saying, but there must be a bond, and there must be some courage on the part of the dog.
There is in my opinion a great difference between a trained attack and instinct protection from a dog who's actions are pure and from the heart.
GSD's in my opinion have the greatest capacity of all breeds for making a conscious decision to protect their masters when they are raised correctly.
Training helps and should not be overlooked, but the dog is the one doing the protecting, so make sure you are worthy.
by GSDNewbie on 30 September 2011 - 04:29
|One of mine had zero training many years ago and protected me from a man breaking in during the night at only six months old. She later protected my son saving his life from a bear in our yard on the dge of the dismal swamp and we lost her that time.|
Forgot to mention she was a rottweiler. I also do believe two of my gsds without formal training would do the same.
by Felloffher on 30 September 2011 - 05:49
I think many of you are missing the point, yes an untrained dog may use aggression towards a threat in an attempt to protect it's self, handler or family. But what happens if the show of teeth and barking isn't enough and the dog has to physicaly stop a threat? This is where more times than not the untrained dog will fail. Slam's Bruce Lee analogy sums it up best.
by minro on 30 September 2011 - 06:38
|I completely agree with felloffher -- when push comes to shove and a dog is needed to physically stop a threat, I would say most (but not all) untrained dogs will back down. Of course, a lot of people think their everyday untrained dogs will, but it's just not true. Most will growl and show teeth, not many will have the courage to bite. I would even go so far as to say that not even all protection trained dogs will bite for real. It takes real courage and a real bond with the handler for a true ppd dog.|