German Shepherd Dog > To those familiar with working dog lines: check this pedigree please? (18 replies)
To those familiar with working dog lines: check this pedigree please?
by minro on 15 September 2011 - 07:46
I'm currently looking at this litter to bring over a nice working pup. Looking to do some PSA and personal protection. Looks matter very little if at all to me, which is my concern with this litter as it seems that the breeder seems to put a bit more emphasis on it. I would prefer a hard dog with a good amount on fight drive.
Please, if you know a bit about pedigrees/lines, any input would be super helpful. If you know of any better breeders in the US that'd be great as well. Thanks :)
by ronin on 15 September 2011 - 08:55
|I don't mind having a look, just put the link in correctly,|
by kazulani on 15 September 2011 - 08:56
|3-3 on Sven and Sindy from the E Litter.|
What I would expect from this breeding is strong hard dogs that are more on the defense side than the prey side of life, less obedience. Very good guard dogs, quick to aggression with decoywork.
A friend of mine has done a breeding on this too. Very good looking dogs, very strong and big bone and dark dogs.
I have a friend that has a male through Sindy.. It is a very serious dog and he has used him for securitywork.
If you wish you may pm me and Ill give you his details, he is very knowing of these lines and has met with the breeders there too.
by minro on 15 September 2011 - 09:31
|Ronin: Sorry the link doesn't work for you! -- if you'd like to do a mating test the sire is Don von den Wilden Teufeln and the damn is Chadee von den Wilden Teufeln. Thank you :)|
by kazulani on 15 September 2011 - 10:00
by Jenni78 on 15 September 2011 - 13:49
|If you don't know exactly what all these dogs bring by personal experience, I wouldn't touch a 3-3 on Sindy/Sven (in a male) w/a ten foot pole, particularly Sindy.|
by minro on 15 September 2011 - 13:50
|thanks for the advice -- care to elaborate why?|
by Ramage on 15 September 2011 - 14:38
|My guess is because they tend to be hard, serious dogs. Have you personally been around dogs like this? I have and I can honestly tell you that I admire them, but do not want to own them. After owning several hard, serious dogs that can be difficult to get obedience on ... I've learned that I prefer dogs more in the middle. Serious when need be, hard to an extent, but eager to please and snappy obedience. That is just ME and my preference. However, I'd encourage anyone to meet dogs like this in person and decide for themselves. If you want and like serious, hard dogs then this is probably a great breeding for you|
by hexe on 15 September 2011 - 15:48
"thanks for the advice -- care to elaborate why? "
For an understanding of why Jenni made that statement (and I agree with her), I suggest you read both of the following threads in their entirety. As Ramage said, these dogs tend to be hard, serious dogs, and are not for the casual owner; they have their place, for sure, but that place is in the hands of very experienced trainer/handlers. In other words, if you have to ask what this breeding brings to the table, you most likely aren't seasoned enough to be a good candidate for a dog from this lineage.
by VomMarischal on 15 September 2011 - 16:20
|The original post seems to be fairly clear about what the dog is for, PSA and PPD. I'd say he'd be fine with a hard dog as long as the the trainer/TD/Decoys know how to bring prey out to balance the dog.|
by Elkoorr on 15 September 2011 - 17:39
|I would not line breed on the combination of Sven/Sindy and their offspring. It is a fact that this combination produced questionable hips and questionable temperament.|
I would not breed this combination with any other pure east german line, but outcross to a mediore west german line dog with great willingness to please and work, evenly balanced in temperament; basically to an "easy go'er".
by Pharaoh on 15 September 2011 - 17:50
|Oh my, another Sven/Sindy Schaferliesel post - which always leads to the notorious Boban, the beautiful but flawed.|
Yes, Pharaoh is a Sven grandson but the mother was Peddy Grafental, Steve Lino's dog and she was one of his favorites. Also, Pharaoh is not linebred on Sven, once is enough
Yes, Pharaoh was at the very limits of my ability. He will be 4 years old next week and I am so glad that I hung in there and did not give up. He now has some of that wonderful quality called biddability that was lacking in his early years. His character is very stable and loyal.
I did start him in Schutzhund and the trainer was very pleased. He is strong in defense and lots of prey drive. I had to have someone stand behind me to back me up holding the leash. He is a big boy and very, very strong and determined. A better handler would probably have no problem.
I am going into this because of the second thread referred to above in Hexe's post.
by Elkoorr on 15 September 2011 - 18:39
|Michele, its not Sven by itself. Its the Sindy vom Schaferliesel/Sven combination that caused problems. Even Sindy alone is fine.|
There are many dogs out there that are linebred on Sven and they are ok. But there are dogs as well out there that are grandkids of that combo coming down over the von Grauen von Mohnstab line that have questionable temperament. If one adds a linebreeding on that combo, it can go either well or absolutely backfire on ya. And then what? Lots of blame, tears and dissappointment. So its better to stay away from that option.
The dogs themself are beautiful and its tempting to want to breed them, just not together. I would not even attempt a linebreeding on Sven alone with having Sven/Sindy on the top or bottom.
by minro on 15 September 2011 - 18:47
|elkoor -- what exactly do you mean by questionable temperament? aggressive? too defensive? fearful?|
by Pharaoh on 15 September 2011 - 21:33
|You are so right Sina. Sven once is enough. I have heard that Don Clausberg (Pharaoh's paternal grandfather) was a tough dog as well.|
Pharaoh surely got a good dose of hard headedness from somewhere. He is also even tempered and very social. But, he is like a fine wine-improves with age, at about 3 1/2 years precisely the tide turned.
With Boban, questionable temperament was predictability and perhaps sudden anger-don't turn your back on him. Kind of like a "borderline" human. I don't know this personally, but from people who did have sad firsthand experience. I also have spoken to people who have male offspring of Boban, not beginner dogs!
Did it come from Sven or Sindy Schaferliesel? Who knows.
Poor Boban, he has had so many different homes. I think he is still being bred in Canada. Notice that he did not do well in schutzhund-I can imagine his obedience was a problem. I don't know what his scores were as far as he did get, just guessing.
You can't go wrong taking elkoor's advice when it comes to DDR dogs minro.
Good luck whatever you do,
by OGBS on 15 September 2011 - 21:55
|I am not familiar with the dogs or the lines, but, the two threads linked above are worthless.|
The second one has no info.
The first one is 15 pages long.
If you remove the posts by DDR-DSH (aka Janice Bartmess) the thread would be about 3-4 pages long. Of those 3-4 pages there are about maybe 5 posts worth reading. The rest is a bunch of ridiculous nonsense.
Seek out those that actually know from personal experience about the dogs and lines and take it from there.
by Jenni78 on 15 September 2011 - 21:58
|Did it come from Sven or Sindy?|
by BlackthornGSD on 15 September 2011 - 21:59
|It's not just a 2-2 linebreeding on the E litter von den Grauen von Monstab, it's a close 3-3 linebreeding on Trux vh Iris, too. And both parents are already individually linebred pretty strongly, too, and on some of the same dogs.|
That's a lot of inbreeding--could make great dogs, could make disasters.
by Ramage on 16 September 2011 - 01:21
|I agree with Blackthorn.|