German Shepherd Dog > Breeder Rights? Breeder Greed? (242 replies)
by GSDNewbie on 20 September 2011 - 01:54
|I stated my points and can not help if you cannot or will not grasp them. I also know the kennel inspectors. Heck just add up how many puppies she has sold and what would happen if they all came back? It is unrealistic this contract to say the least. Thank you for compliments on my boy. He has a very thick coat and hard to manage one. He looses hair all the time and has super thick undercoat. I was a professional groomer. The point is I would be ashamed if my dog looked upkept and he deserves to be kept well for all he gave of himself it is an honor for me to do so. I have seen Eagle looking awesome and just because he retired does not mean he deserves to not look his best as he did when he was earning money. That is the difference between a loving pet home and business. How many dogs are at the kennel property to this date? She cant give that level of care to two more so why fight to get them? Why claim these eople are unfit in one breath and in the next say she does not know them? What makes her think she will find a home where they will auto be loved more than grieveing friends who already have them would.|
I still cant get over how you say poor eagle being brought up RIP omg Molly called these people without any respect on their human friends death demanding the dogs. To imagine looseing a dear friend and to get a call right after like that I just cant imagine. I could see inquireing if the dogs were safe and giving condolances, but lawyer talk and give me the dogs upon owners death? No
by BlackthornGSD on 20 September 2011 - 02:01
*backing away from thread carefully*
by Blitzen on 20 September 2011 - 03:25
Ditto, Brandi and Christine. I too was at Molly's and found all her dogs clean and well groomed including Eagle who was living inside as a housedog. To intimate otherwise is wrong especially from those who have never even been to her house.
by eichenluft on 20 September 2011 - 04:35
Back to the drama - Newbie - Yvonne - yes you were invited to come on out to my place many many times, and you never did. You NEVER visited to see for yourself my home, my kennel, my dogs or how I take care of them. So from one picture you have decided that I kennel all of my dogs, they never see the light of day, I don't groom them, and I discard my dogs as soon as they are retired?
Well, of course you are wrong, as usual. Eagle lived his entire life in my house as my constant companion. He was 25X Schutzhund 3 titled, and enjoyed his life as a couch potato, ride-in-the-truck (inside the cab of course), rarely crated and never kenneled from the time he was weaned from his mother (whelped and raised in the house, of course) until he passed away right there on that couch when he was almost 12 years old. This picture taken when he was 11 - I have many many pictures of him, but none of him in a kennel - where would that picture be Yvonne?
So this must be another dog with "missing" ear, on someone else's couch - he and his poor neglected daughter who still uses that spot on the same couch as her favorite spot to hang out - so terribly groomed and neglected and horribly treated my dogs are, eh? Especially after they are retired and not "making any money for me" right Yvonne?
Would love to see that picture showing Eagle looking so terrible. Why don't you go ahead and share that so everyone can see what you are blabbing about Yvonne.
by Jenni78 on 20 September 2011 - 05:00
I'm not a big Molly fan. However, God help the person who would post exaggerated or false claims of my animals being mistreated or neglected. While I wouldn't care to do business with the woman if she owned the last 2 GSDs on the planet, I would never go so far to allege that she mistreated Eagle or any other dog unless I had HARD EVIDENCE. I wouldn't wish false accusations of animal neglect on my worst enemy.
by hexe on 20 September 2011 - 05:22
|Wanda, since you've come back to your thread, I have a very simple question, and all it requires is a yes or no answer.|
Did Gabi's will, or any other legally recognized document, spell out specifically what should be done with her dogs, and/or who should take possesion of them, upon her death?
Yes or no?
by Blitzen on 20 September 2011 - 12:23
It's ironic that some who have never bred or guaranteed a litter of GSD's or trained or titled a GSD themselves are the biggest critics of those who do.
by GSDNewbie on 20 September 2011 - 12:47
|Was more than one photo and they were posted here taken by someone else. Your animals in photos taken by you are always in immaculate appearance and you take awesome photos. Anyone remember the feed room photos and photos of the dogs posted here long while back? It was in those and I am disinclinned to spend today looking for them as I have enough to do already. Perhaps it was taken during a more particularly busy time for you and before your annual party cleanup, I dont know. My point is why keep going on and on because these two dogs escaped your control and coming back to you. My point is if your heart dog looked like that in those photos and was allowed a chunk torn from his ear why would I believe two dogs out of how many on your property would be brought inside your home for keeping. I said they would be house dogs put into a kennel and that was argued with. Are all those other dogs you have back for rehoming or have for foster living indoors? Am I wrong about that? Do you have all the dogs on property inside? The end is you cant get them back and still no answer to where the funds would have gone or other peoples questions of how much you would have sought for them if you did get them back. I am finished as I have made the only points on this situation that I had. I refused the invitations because at first I was busy and later I decided I did not wish to meet with you after knowing more. Would it have benefitted me to befriend you? probablly. You offered more than once for me to come out and invited me to your e parties. I am not the kind of person to befriend or suck up to people just because it can benefit me or for political reasons. I am who I am and just say what I think. I also go by things I see or hear myself not hearsay and I had prior contact with you that determined I did not wish to friend you based on contact in your position as breed warden and as a member of local sch group so why come kiss up to you when I wanted no close friendship. I would rather have a small group of friends who like me for the person I am than to pretend to others something I am not or befriend someone who does things I do not agree with because I can gain from it. When I moved close to you was during the time period before you started selling showlines and it was made public on here following a couple years of you talking anti showlines on this forum and telling me your sch club was not the best pace for me to bring my show line puppy without even before meeting her or I. You were publically against them in a very loud way then later you were selling them quietly behind the scenes. I did not feel comfortable facing that since all I own are show lines, so I did not come to your home. I am not going to be false and come to you saying omg Molly you are the best! I must be your friend and I worship all you do when I do not agree with you on things. I am not going to make friends with someone, gain their trust, and then use things against them behind their backs in the name of friendship. I have always respected that you as well, are not afraid of saying what you feel or think even if I do not agree with your opinions. When I explained these things before to you though, you did not recall any of this happening. I remember it well. I have done a great amount of rescue in the area we are discussing on this thread before moving away. I have worked with the wardens/ kennel inspectors there. I stand by all I feel and have said. It is a free world and anyone can choose to disagree with me and I am free to feel the way I do and that is the beauty of this world. I have even sent many people to buy from you because eagle was a damn fine dog and working lines is what the people wanted. Just because I disagree with many things does not mean there is nothing you do or have done that I do not like or agree with. In the case of these two dogs, what has happened, I believe to be very wrong. I do not agree with forceing turning over dogs that are not ev|
by Brandi on 20 September 2011 - 13:57
You're an idiot. Ok, now I feel better.
Blackthorn's, I, too am backing out carefully.
I just love this photo of Eagle, Nova, and Tigger.
by Blitzen on 20 September 2011 - 14:28
|This is for those who breed: how do you assure that dogs you have bred will be properly cared for in the event that the buyer can no longer provide for them (for any reason)? Do you offer a written contract with a sale? If so, does that contract contain a first right of refusal?|
by Betty on 20 September 2011 - 15:50
|I would like to add to the above. If you expect the breeders right of first refusal to pass on to the estate, do you have arrangements for the care of these dogs in case of your death? |
Do your owners know who to contact if you are dead? Is there a formal arrangement?
by Donald Deluxe on 20 September 2011 - 16:03
|"I'm not a big Molly fan. However, God help the person who would post exaggerated or false claims of my animals being mistreated or neglected. While I wouldn't care to do business with the woman if she owned the last 2 GSDs on the planet, I would never go so far to allege that she mistreated Eagle or any other dog unless I had HARD EVIDENCE. I wouldn't wish false accusations of animal neglect on my worst enemy."|
Ditto. GSDNewbie, regardless of how you feel about the contract or Molly's business practices, you're WAY off-base with your unproven allegations of neglect and I'd advise you to delete them ASAP.
by Blitzen on 21 September 2011 - 11:56
|No breeders reading this who offer contracts with first rights of refusal clauses? What do you ask of a buyer if he or she needs to re-home a dog they purchased from you?|
by beetree on 21 September 2011 - 20:55
|That's the thing, the care of the dog is the buyers responsibility, not the breeders since they sold it. Unless you sign one of Molly's new contracts, then if you don't give her the dog when she wants it, she'll be able to take your estate or heirs to court. |
And no one EVER answers the money remuneration-recompense questions!
by Blitzen on 22 September 2011 - 16:07
|Most breeders I know offer written contracts with their sales and those contracts normally contain a first right of refusal should the buyer not be able to provide for the dog. For me a written contract that includes a first right of refusal sends the message that this breeder has longterm commitments to the breed in general, specifically to dogs he or she breeds. I see this as a good thing. I don't think a breeder's responsibility ends with the sale.|
First right of refusal generally means nothing more than should the buyer have to rehome the dog, the breeder is given the first option to take the dog back. Some breeders offer a partial refund, some offer to split any money gained on the sale of that dog after expenses. Some will just take the dog back and offer no compensation. Some times it depends on why the dog is returned. If it's for a reason like illness, divorce, loss of job then some breeders will give a partial refund on the dog. If it's for a reason like - I really wanted a smaller/bigger/prettier/uglier dog, then I think a breeder would be within his rights to not offer anything. The contract should address what will happen if the dog is returned.
The great part about written contracts is, if you don't want to agree to the terms, then you are free to buy a dog elsewhere.
by beetree on 22 September 2011 - 16:37
|True, Blitzen if the buyer is alive to make those decisions. Again, this buyer died unexpectedly, and did not have a binding contract that extends past their death. Do you think Molly should have paid the estate for the dogs if she had been successful in her bid to reclaim them? Because she kept repeating that the possessers of the dog never paid any money for them, so it sure didn't seem like she felt like paying them a dime. And like I said, those points and questions are daintily ignored.|
by Blitzen on 22 September 2011 - 17:57
I can't judge Molly's intentions, BeeTree. Seems to me that she's going to be damned either way. If she wasn't interested in taking back these dogs, she'd have been critisized too don't ya think?
by beetree on 22 September 2011 - 18:08
|Well, no, because no one asked her to take them--- she initiated this particular boondoggle, herself. And as far as I can tell, she thought she was entitled to the dogs and had no responsibility to pay anybody, or any estate a dime for them.|
by VomMarischal on 22 September 2011 - 18:11
|I'm curious, since this thread hasn't died yet. What does one DO if people fail to keep the terms of the contract? Spend $10k on an atty for a $1500 dog?|
I have contracts, but frankly I have no idea what I'd do if people failed to live up to them.
by beetree on 22 September 2011 - 18:56
|Well, that's the other thing, too much incorrect information was relayed by Molly originally, and that certainly came across as insensitive in the best case scenario, to downright bullying, depending on where one was sitting when she sent that first "Lawyer demand" letter without a hint of condolences. She thought if she won in court, she wouldn't have to pay court costs, too. Turned out that was a bunch of hogwash.|
She would have wasted money bringing Wanda to court, so she backed off. And was motivated to change the language on her current contracts so she could sue any heirs or the estate upon the death of an original owner, because she feels she is entitled to first crack at the dogs, no matter what, should the original buyer die unexpectedly, or even without a will.
Now, this doesn't mean she has to automatically take any dog back or what amount she should pay for a dog if she does regain ownership. Just trust her with whatever, I guess. Not that Molly showed trust to this original owner with her choice of caretaker, only Molly's desires seem to matter, to well, her.
So VM, what would the reality be for someone in this situation that Wanda found herself in, if the deceased had signed a contract with the boilerplate language? Hmmmmmmm? That then makes it necessary to put a dollar value on the dogs, I would think, to decide if the court fight is worth it. A titled breedworthy dog, just might make it worthwhile. A senior, neutered dog with cancer, I doubt would be of much interest, especially if the dog was being well cared for by, yes, strangers .... to Molly.