German Shepherd Dog > Breeder Rights? Breeder Greed? (242 replies)
by Ruger1 on 09 September 2011 - 14:59
They say Ignorance is Bliss...wee!!!
My father always says, " Whatever Deannas taking, I want some too!!"...:)
I try to give folks the benefit of the doubt. I hope they do the same for me when the times comes...Have a nice day Bee...
When someone passes away family and friends are usually very quick to step up to the plate. However, as time passes the responsibility of a commit like this will settle in. Over time people can get to changing their minds about the commitment. The friend might genuinely want to step in and care for the dogs today, but caring for a few dogs during someone's hospital stay is much different then a life long commitment....: )
by VomMarischal on 09 September 2011 - 15:32
|Well then I would advise telling the new people that the dogs are welcome back at any time.|
by beetree on 09 September 2011 - 15:49
Well, then there is the difference, LOL! I have NO DOUBT. Hope your day is as sunny and nice as mine!
by hexe on 10 September 2011 - 06:44
|Incidently, HAVE the caretakers of the dogs stated that they wish to adopt their charges? I recall Wanda stating that all the dogs were safe, in good hands and well-cared for, but I DON'T recall her saying whether she and/or the other friend wanted to KEEP one or more of the dogs THEMSELVES, as their own dog(s).|
And unless the deceased woman's will specifically bequethed each dog to a specific individual, it's quite premature to refer to Wanda, or anyone else, as the 'owners' of any of these dogs; until the estate is settled, the dogs remain part of the estate.
by Kalibeck on 10 September 2011 - 06:59
|I wanted to put in another $.02, a day or so ago, but work & flooding kept me from it.|
I don't think anyone initially started out wanting to bash Molly. I, personally, think Molly breeds some really nice dogs, & I would be the last person to condemn a breeder for standing up for their pups. I have been supportive of breeders who tried to remove their dogs from bad situations. And it's very commendable to try to help someone avoid a situation like cphudson's was; how very awful, & I sincerely hope that cphudson's life & health is better now. I know that were I to be in an accident, I would worry about my husband & my dogs ceaselessly.
I think, & have said, that it was the manner in which this was carried out that was offensive. Perhaps, since I work with bereaved folks on a routine basis, I am a bit more sensitive to their needs, & a bit protective of the bereaved as well. The psychic injury they have suffered is as real & as painful as an actual wound. Many people can bury their pain with their loved one, but it tends to surface again in the form of anger, guilt, illness, or some other difficulty. Caring for the dogs of someone you care about, especially if you were their student, would be very healing, & a very nice way to revisit the closeness felt to that person. Were that person to tire at some point of caring for the dogs, then would have been the appropriate time to step up & offer to care for them.
I think the changes in the 'story' along the line simply reflect the realization of how it looked from the other side, & a need to avoid judgement. But, still, you can't go back in time, or undo what's been done. Someone who really only cared for the welfare of the dogs might still send a note along to the OP, you know, a little apology, not for worrying about the dogs, but for coming across as being uncaring to the people, & still offer to be a back up plan for them should they ever need it. It takes a big person to eat a little crow & still smile. But those are the people who can feel good about the fact that they have done everything in their power to aid the pups they bred, even if their contract is moot, just by being nice.
Let me try to explain like this...my mentor taught me that when your dog is straining on the leash, the more you pull against them, the more effort they put into pulling. And that when you let the leash loose, they have nothing to pull against, they stop pulling. I tried it, it worked. None have ever run away, they always looked back to see what happened to the resistance, & came back to my side. Stop pulling, let go, crouch down, & offer a treat. Maybe then you'll get to at least be updated on how the dogs are doing. Try kindness first. It really works.
Best wishes, jackie harris
by michael49 on 10 September 2011 - 11:57
|Jackie, You post is the most intelligent advice given in this situation. Showing true compassion and concern for the dogs means alot more in my eyes then a blunt " My contract says they should be returned to me and I want them now." If Molly had handled this in a different manner, it might have been seen in a different light. Personally I would have never posted it on any forum, it should have been resolved in a different way like you said.|
by 4pack on 10 September 2011 - 14:21
|Exactly. But I'm sure we all know dog people who are much better with dogs than people. I'd be livid enough to come back and haunt the ass that treated my bereaved family and friends this way.|
Just gives me the warm fuzzies that MOlly's only lesson here was to make her contract legally binding next time.
by cphudson on 10 September 2011 - 14:47
|Kalibeck, I also agree with your statement. The last of my post was missing, But basically wanted to say the same thing as you nicely stated. While I was not pleased with the care my 2 dogs mentioned before received & my older rescues,|
I was so pleased + relieved that my others were in happy homes with my family / friends. I couldn't go visit them at the time, but they sent my pictures & video's of the dogs. It was obvious the dogs were well cared for & very happy with my family. They all became attached to them also. My family did get free young full trained imported WL GSD's, but that was never the issue though just their welfare. We never asked for them back since in their minds my family were making a commitment for the life time of the dogs. They were happy & so were our dogs, they are still with them to this day. It still nice to get pic's & go visit them.
I would recommend you to request pictures / video's of the dogs for your peace of mind. Offer a open invitation to take the dogs back in the future if they are ever in the position of not able to care for them again.
Work on building a new friendly relationship with your dogs offspring's new owners, so you'll have the chance to be kept updated on their progress. As long as the dogs are alright & happy the rest doesn't matter.
When I've gone into the hospital again, the people I request to care for my dogs are the very ones I would trust to take care of my dogs if something should happen to me in the future. Rest assured if the dog's owner
trusted her friends enough to care for her dogs, home, & estate then I'm sure they are well cared for even now. It takes a lot of trust & faith in person to give them access to all your property & love ones.
by eichenluft on 10 September 2011 - 14:56
|that is a nice thought. Unfortunately that will be difficult since the "new owners" are not known to me. I can only hope and guess that the dogs are in homes appropriate for their needs, where they will be happy. and that's exactly why this will never happen again, for the sake of my dogs and my own state of mind. Being told they are in good hands is not the same as knowing this as fact.|
and for all of you drama-queens who think you know the whole story - you don't. You have no idea what I said or didn't say, who I spoke to and how I spoke to them - or how they spoke to me. Make up your own stories to create more drama, that's what this site is all about isn't it? Nevermind the facts - drama and fiction is much more fun.
by Jenni78 on 10 September 2011 - 15:37
|My favorite kind of drama to make up is the kind you said in your other posts.|
by Red Sable on 10 September 2011 - 15:48
|Molly, what makes you so sure no one here has heard the truth? Not from you of course, because, even though you preach facts, you certainly don't know how to tell them.|
by michael49 on 10 September 2011 - 16:02
|Molly, You keep harping about the drama and making up facts to suit yourselves. The facts are you created the original drama by posting on this and other forums, fuel was added to the fire as things progressed. You could have taken a different approach and maybe had a different reaction from the board members. Your a big girl and you know what this board and most others are like and the likely outcome of such posts. Especially when you've been under the microscope about other dealings in the past. Like it or not, you brought this on yourself and you should have known better.|
Don't post such things on message boards expecting everyone to take your side, that will never happen.There will always be two sides to every story and different people will take different sides based on what they beleive the truth to be, thats just life.
by beetree on 10 September 2011 - 21:03
|And the sad thing is 4pack, that is what is so obvious to the affronted. After all these recent, eloquent replies with heartfelt explanations. There is no condolence, just an expression of suspicion. |
It won't happen folks, that gene is missing or at best, suppressed... I put that in for Deanna...
(Hexe, you are one smart cookie, but with this, the round pegs just don't fit those square holes. Must be one heck of a good BarBQ!)
by hexe on 11 September 2011 - 01:22
|beetree, honey, while I appreciate the compliment, I do have to correct a misconception you're laboring under...I've never been to Molly's place--not her present location, nor where she lived (MD or VA) when I first met her, let alone the annual reunion. I don't have, and have never had, a dog from Molly's breeding, or that Molly rescued, or that had anything to do with Molly whatsoever. And I don't think Molly's a saint who can do no wrong, either--but by the same token, she's never claimed to be. (I, of course, do fit this description...KIDDING. AS IF!)|
I just don't care for the wholesale scourging that ensues *every time* somebody comes on here and starts waving their dirty drawers around while placing the blame entirely on this particular breeder. I get it--lots of folks don't like Molly. Not a surprise--women who are smart in business, and who refuse to be bullied by anyone, tend to be disliked and they also generally tend to not be 'warm fuzzy' people-person types. But to the best of my knowledge, the majority of people who have gotten dogs from Molly have been quite happy with their dogs, the support they've received from Molly when they had questions or concerns, and how they've been treated by her. Given the number of dogs she's sold or rehomed over the years, that's a pretty damn good track record.
Let's be fair here--Molly didn't start this thread here. Now, I notice that Wanda has been conspicuously silent since Molly's posts appeared, too--no responses to any questions directed toward her in the thread, either. It's really easy to accuse Molly of being insensitive and cruel to the friends who currently have the deceased woman's dogs--yet Molly and the deceased ALSO clearly had SOME kind of relationship, since Molly *gave* the now-deceased woman a nice bitch puppy after the woman's older Eichenluft dog developed a physical condition that will likely limit the older dog's activities at some point. So Molly also qualifies as a bereaved friend--and one who had/has the added stress of worrying about the two dogs she brought into the world, in addition her shock at the woman's death. It doesn't seem like Molly called Wanda directly and said "Gimme those dogs, now!"--it doesn't sound like the two of them have even spoken directly to one another, in fact.
I have admitted all along that I don't know the whole story of this--and regardless of what Wanda or anyone else on that side of the conflict has told you, NEITHER DO YOU. As with most disagreements, the truth probably lies somewhere between Wanda's version of the events and Molly's version. If it can be established that both dogs are in homes suited to handling and caring for them, and that the intent is for these to be forever homes for them, AND the people who have them agree to notify Molly if they have any problems with the dogs, and give her first rights to them if the dogs need to be rehomed for any reason, then I think it would be best for the dogs to stay where they're wanted, and I sure wouldn't be supportive of Molly making efforts to gain custody of them...but that's for the actual involved parties to work out.
I just don't understand what was to be gained by a coyly 'blind' posting about this situation that wouldn't have been better provided by allowing the estate executor to deal with the circumstances.
by shepherdpal on 11 September 2011 - 03:43
|Completely agree with Hexe who articulated it so much better than I could have.|
by kitkat3478 on 11 September 2011 - 05:17
So Molly says,
would hope all dog owners who love their dogs and die suddenly have friends like that. Because - it happens ALL THE TIME beetree - when someone dies, the pets are not taken in by friends. They are discarded, sold, put on craigslist, euthanized, sent to shelters. It happens ALL THE TIME. Breeders are not notified, and even if they could be - most breeders don't have contracts that mention getting the dog back "for any reason" - they don't keep in touch with the owners, and they don't care enough to keep track of the dogs. I do.
I knew the moment this owner was diagnosed with her illness. I spoke to her often, weekly, sometimes several times/week, in the 6 years since she bought the first dog from me. I was her friend, too. I knew the day she was going into the hospital. I heard the news within an hour of her passing away suddenly.
I would think THIS WOMAN, knowing something wrong in the hospitol, would have given you back your dogs at this time, IF THAT IS WHETRE SHE WANTED THEM TO GO!!!Within an hour your hunting them down!!!THAT IS BREEDER GREED!!!!!
Once Molly gets the dogs back, they will be placed in a kennel and of course RESCUED, and rehomed for a phenominal service fee...
Thats Mollys way...cha-ching!!!
ZMOD EDIT: ENOUGH!! I DELETED SOME OF YOUR REMARKS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO BACK THROUGH THE MOLLY/SHELLEY FEUD EVER AGAIN. THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. LEAVE THAT SLEEPING DOG TO LIE IN THE PAST WHERE IT BELONGS.
by hexe on 11 September 2011 - 06:32
|<sigh> kitkat, I was in the hospital and had surgery twice in the past three months, but I didn't give my dogs to anyone before I went in--I had no reason to think I was going to die. Do you rehome your dogs every time you have to go into the hospital for a procedure?|
The only thing ALL parties in this mess seem to agree on is that this woman's death was completely unexpected by everyone...including the woman herself.
zmod, THAT'S exactly what bothered me about this from the start. It's been thinly veiled from jump, despite it being apples & headcheese.
by Betty on 11 September 2011 - 13:49
|I will agree with you Hexe, that a certain breeder does have a Public Relations type problem, but I don't think that is caused by any gender bias or by refusing to be bullied. |
If anything hangs her it is her own posts in my opinion. Some like her stances and some don't. But all in all it is probably smart business for her because she has probably gained more sales then lost thru her internet presence.
There is no shortage of sucessfull women owning boarding kennels, breeding, or on the field. The vast majority of them will not allow themself or their dogs by extension to be bullied and yet do not have the same problems.
by Betty on 11 September 2011 - 13:54
|I hope everyone walks away from this thread thinking about what will happen to their dogs if they die and making their wishes known and preferably in writing.|
I hope every breeder, friend, and owner, if they ever find themself in a situation like this will step back, put their ego's aside and think "What is best for the dogs?"
And I hope that everyone that enters into a contract as either a buyer or seller of a dog will realize that the contract is really only the minimum of what is expected of both parties and that the ultimate goal would be to work togather for the good of the animal.
by Brandi on 16 September 2011 - 13:29
|Junior High?...Hell, I was thinking freak'n Pre-School.|
I've said this to Molly before, I'll say it again....STOP throwing fuel in the fire. It is NOT worth it.
~Brandi and of course, my Eichenluft dog - "Dugan"~