German Shepherd Dog > not right kennel?? (316 replies)
by OGBS on 31 August 2011 - 05:27
|Hi Red Sable,|
If I mispoke about Hans offering to buy the pup back then I apologize for my mistake.
I thought that was what I read.
As for the ear, I haven't commented on it other than to look to remedies in the contract.
I don't know of anyone, though, that has an ear guarantee on pups in their contract.
Maybe show people do, I don't know.
I am no expert on ears, but, I have seen pups with floppy ears that had them corrected as late as 12 or 13 months old.
I have no opinion on whether this pup's ear can or can't be corrected.
Again, If I was planning on making money off of this pup, either in a sale, or in future breedings, I would do my best to make sure I did everything possible to correct the problem. (This assumes, of course, that there is potential for correcting it)
If the ear problem is a genetic defect then I would rely on the contract as it was written.
Wade freely and willingly signed the contract.
If he is unhappy with the terms ex post facto, that is on him.
There is a legal term that I am sure many people are aware of called, "due dilligence". It applies here.
As to telling Wade how he should feel, I don't think that anyone did that and I know that I didn't if that was directed at me.
Personally, I feel bad for anyone that feels they got screwed, but, I also like to look at all parts of the equation to see if it correct or not.
by OGBS on 31 August 2011 - 05:40
I fully understand what you are saying. It isn't a difficult concept.
It, however, doesn't apply in this intance.
If your stance is that it does, great, then we disagree.
What I would like to know is what is the name of the dog written on the contract? Not the registration papers, but, the contract.
I am assuming that Wade signed the contract prior to, or in conjunction with, sending payment for the puppy and the subsequent shipment of the puppy to him.
If he received a contract with a pup named _____Od Roubenky and signed the contract, again, it is on him.
If the dog name written on the contract had any of Jiri's kennel names (not Jinopo, it is not a breeding kennel name) then he has something to be upset about.
by steve1 on 31 August 2011 - 05:47
This Grandpa has not called you any names, If i am in the mood for calling you names then your name will be told right out what i think and you can then do what you think fit nothing you can throw at me bothers me at all so why bring anything up like that.
What i said was to quite a few on here you were in the group but it was not aimed solely at you But i guess i am dealing with a real sensitive person who's nerves are not so Strong, NOT good Breeding material, No one else has commented on it.
However thats not the the question in hand, I would think that if i came to you to buy a Puppy then you would have already asked me why i wanted it very first part of contact, So asking at the date you are is a bit late you would already know why i wanted the Pup from the first letter or phone call or email.
Regards doing your homework, i can tell you the breeding of my dogs took a fair bit of research, the way they are bred and dogs bred from the lines like they are do not come on the market very often, and i do my homework more or as much as any person on here that is certain.
As for you driving 700 miles that is below the distance i travelled for Hektor and i was on the go for 25 hours solid and pulling two more dogs in a dog trailer as there was no one to look after them whist i was away so that is nothing new. AND remember i am a GRANDPA
However you still did not answer my question, Remember this Wade Guy is in the USA the Dog was born 1000's of miles away in CZ so you could not send him or me to anyone, you only need to answer a simple question. Would you tell me the Puppy was born and bred by someone else other than the person i contacted before i paid for it that person being yourself, then i have the choice of having it or not no hard thing to answer. a simple Yes or No. If it is yes; then you have said wrongly in your posts if NO' then you will understand what i have been trying to get across (Ethics}
by OGBS on 31 August 2011 - 06:29
You should pay attention to what you wrote:
"As i said some of you have no ethics at all and you do not answer questions when put to you Cop out Artists the very worst kind of people who shout out, but do not reply to straight forward questions in which they may have to retract past statements.
So i ask again Jenni78 and OGBS".
I think the highlighted text taken from your post is a perfect example of someone calling others names.
Sorry, but my nerves are well intact.
Your trivial little story about the circumstances surrounding how or when you contacted me is immaterial and ridiculous.
Again, I would have sent you to the owner of the female. The person who bred the litter.
Me telling my story about how far I drove to look at a potential dog for me wasn't about a pissing contest (you seem to love these) about who drove further. It was about doing one's homework.
I am sorry that you have no friends to watch your dogs.
I had two very attractive female friends, Alicia and Jessica, come to my house to watch my dogs and my cats while I was gone.
My answer to your simple yes or no question is the same as it was before. It is irrelevant.
Jinopo is a pup and dog broker of many, many kennels. Do your homework.
I have a question for you. Is it ethical to call people names and then say that you didn't? Yes or no?
by alboe2009 on 31 August 2011 - 06:59
Damn, had a whole page typed and the cruisers' laptop froze. Can't remeber it all but I'll try and give the jist. Even though this is a HOT thread half shouldn't even apply to the facts because of opinions, perceptions and interpretations. BUT the OP asked for opinions....... and what is the ole saying? "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one".
by steve1 on 31 August 2011 - 07:17
I to have a great many friends but they are not dog owners or do they know anything about dogs, and my Dogs live outdoors.
They would consider a friend of mine a stranger never having seen them before and for that person to go into a strange dogs pen COULD be asking for trouble, or are your Dogs that way they will wag there tails and slurp over a stranger when you are not present and they had never met before. However perhaps you would risk it just to have an easier trip but you are not me thank goodness.
I am not prepared to take that chance, not only for the persons welfare but the Dogs are the ones to pay the price should anything go wrong and through no fault of there own.
The nearest ScH friend is about 24 miles from me and they work so hardly fair to ask them to drive over twice a day to see to the Dogs. So NO' they had to come with me.
SO' you have not again answered the question so you would then if i came to you direct for a Puppy you would sell me one off from another Breeder without telling me even if your male was the Sire.
That is not ethical and i hope people read this and take note of your ethices not very good ones
And your Nerves are not solid at all by the way you wrote above in your second last post says it all once said is once too often.
As i said not good breeding material, there is no need for me to bother talking to you again on this subject your practises are not good in my book so that is enough for me.
by Jenni78 on 31 August 2011 - 14:00
|Alboe, since I like you and you're reasonable and rational, I will again break my pact of silence and come back to answer this.|
The reason there is so much controversy here, imo, between "us" (those who think Wade should've known the kennel name wouldn't be Jirkova Dvora) and "them" (those who think Wade should've gotten a certified letter or perhaps a skywriter to tell him that the puppy's name wouldn't be Jirkova Dvora) is that he requested a puppy out of Jiri's stud (can't even remember the damn dog's name anymore) and USSY. He chose that litter, in which USSY was the dam. USSY, very clearly, was not/is not owned by Jinopo. If you need extra verification of this fact, you simply click on "females" and you don't find her. She is owned by another kennel and the litter is on Jinopo's site because it's one of their studs who is siring the litter.
So, out of all those litters Wade chooses the USSY litter, and then is surprised when the puppy's name reflects that of USSY's owner. Had he cared one iota about the particulars of the character of the dog he was buying as opposed to the name of the dog and the names on the pedigree, he most likely would've done a simple "click" onto Ussy to see what he could find out about her and most certainly he would've realized at this point (if not finding her under "females" wasn't enough of a clue) that she was owned by another kennel. I thoroghly research every dog I buy; I cannot imagine picking some pictures on a website and saying "I want that one" and being done with it. I talk to owners, trainers, other puppy owners, etc. If you are breeding, I think you need to do this. How do you know what you're getting is what you want if you don't ask these questions? Well, apparently, when you care not what you're breeding and only want a particular "last name" to imply prestige so you can sell the puppies to people who know equally as little as you, I guess this is how mistakes happen. The problem is the way they were handled- he flew off the handle, hence the 9 pages of hysterical arguments.
Ethics should always be first and foremost. However, just because you have ethics does not mean you are obligated to point out the obvious to people too lazy to do their own homework and just want to make some money off someone else's research and hard work.
~Jennifer Gates Trump Hilton
by Ruger1 on 31 August 2011 - 14:20
| Jen, IMO that sums it up pretty well.... Unfortunately, misunderstandings always cause hard feelings, even between friends. It is an unfortunate set of circumstances for sure. I do not think anything was done out of deceit.... I am also sorry about Wades health, that probably is contributing to some of what has transpired here with regard to attitudes....|
Why not add
von Stephanitz too......LOL ; )
by kazulani on 31 August 2011 - 15:38
Very well said Pientje!
I too have very good experience with Jinopo!
by Mystere on 31 August 2011 - 16:27
|Oh, c'mon people!! Really? Nine pages over this? And half of it is "us" bickering at each other. Please, let's everyone just drop this thread and move on.|
by Ace952 on 31 August 2011 - 18:31
|Mystere...I have seen a lot of threads go on for a lot more than 9 pages over stuff that was a lot less and mainly gone off topic. This has for the most part stayed on topic.|
by sable59 on 01 September 2011 - 00:43
|all breeders warrant any defective things on dogs. this i am sure is a genetic issue as since he raised his ears the right one has been this way. we are talking 4 months as he is now over 7 mo. old|
hans has been aware of this as long as i have been. he kepy saying it will straighten up. it hasn't and it never will.
i doubt there is a serious breeder that would breed the dog.
as for me knowing that it came from another kennel other than jinipo, i did not!!
in all honesty and giving jeri the benifit of the doubt, he may of not knowed how bad i wanted this dog to be his, not the other guys.
for me it is over. i may have a hard time selling the pup as i am out of the game. it is not because of this but health reasons.
hans acts like he is a big part of jinipo and he is nothing , other a broker for them.i have had 4 e-mails as to some of the dogs hans has sent to people. none of these has gotten satisfied from the ordeal as one of them called it. warranty hell, he has no warranty on a piece of paoer that costs you more money. they pay nothing on replacement. read all the contract, i didn't, or i never would have let hans get involved.i trusted him to do the right thing. all he and his wife has done is lie, lie lie!!
and jenn,poor pathetic jinn. with names like trump and hilton wow.!!
also you never mentioned that single brood bitch you have that is ready to have her fourth litter. how old is she.
also i would like to hear about the black male . you shyed away when i mentioned it earlier on.
you are so critical of everone. why hide in the dark? a lot of fololks would like to hear about your great dogs.
you act as though you are a trainer but in real life you pay to have your dogs trained.
i know more about you and your dealings than you think.
i don't like you and have never liked a loudmouth that acts as though they are a real dog person when they have to pay for almost everthing done.
i am going to hang around as long as i can to see you make foolish statements that you can't back up. have a bad evening jenn..
by Chaz Reinhold on 01 September 2011 - 01:03
|Dude, you sound disturbed. You wanted it so badly to be his? Is this really going on? If you think so highly of Jiri, why wouldn't you trust his judgement of the bitch mated with HIS male? I mean c'mon. How else do you pump 40 litter a year?|
by Ace952 on 01 September 2011 - 01:08
Would you sell the dog for $2000 to cut your losses? I know you said that you have put in $4000 into the now 7 month old pup but there is no way someone will pay $4000 for it.
Would a replacement work? I know you said your health is bad and you are getting out of the business so does that prevent you from possibly returning the dog and asking for a replacement?
With all of this stuff....what are some possible solutions that you are looking for?
by michael49 on 01 September 2011 - 02:24
|Ace, you need to click Wades screen name and read the other threads he posted and what he had to say in each one.After you have read the guarentee of dogs thread and the eurosport k9 and alpine k9 threads click on the Fargo ad in the ads sent section, read the line right above Fargos picture. I believe you'll have the answer to your question. As to who's being honest about this, you'll have to make that decision for yourself.|
by Firedist8 on 01 September 2011 - 03:32
This really is a joke. You have a nice looking pup. A young dog and his ear isn't fully up. It does not look twisted just floppy. If you don't want the pup sell it.
by yellowrose of Texas on 01 September 2011 - 03:45
ThIs thread is truly like the game we use to play in Girl Scouts around the camp fire. I whisper something in the ear of the girl on the right and by the time it comes back to me on the LEFT
It is a cat instead of a dog and it has stripes instead of polka dots..
THE EAR IS CURLED LIKE A TWIST ...SEEN IN THE VIDEO AND already discribed. LIKE WRESTLEMAN stated way back .....
I WOULDN"T have wanted to pay that kind of price with the kind of reputation of these KENNELS with a Pup whose ear didn't flop straight or stand straight..
I want no pretzels ears or Twisty EARS NO MATTER IF THEY FLOP OR STAND...period>
by hexe on 01 September 2011 - 04:06
|Want a warranty? Buy a refrigerator. It's not possible to actually 'guarantee' a living creature that's not even matured yet. Confirm all of the pertinant facts before you put your money out there--get proof of health clearances/ratings; of titles and breed survey and show ratings; proof that both the sire and dam are actually *registered* with the appropriate registry, and that the owners of each have signed off on the litter registration; proof that the pup you're buying is either already registered, or proof that the registration is being processed. Pay a reasonable price for the animal, inspect it and have it vet-checked on arrival, and from that point on, it's up to you as the new owner to do the very best you can to see that the pup grows up sound, strong and correct.|
All the 'warranty' paperwork in the world can't keep a pup from becoming dysplastic, if that's what is in that pup's genetic hand of cards. You want to be sure of everything with a dog? Then only buy fully mature dogs--by age 5-6 years, pretty much everything that's going to rear it's ugly head as far as health or soundness issues goes will have already shown itself. Ya takes your chances with everything younger, and the first rule of sensible gambling is to never bet more than you can afford to lose.
Maybe breeders should start including a disclaimer in their ads, like the ones you hear for investment products such as oil futures...
"Past results of our breedings are not indicative of future performance, and certain information in this ad contains certain forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties common to living, growing creatures. You should only purchase an immature dog if you are willing to accept certain risks. Dog breeding and/or buying is extremely risky . You should be prepared to lose all of the funds that you invest in a purchased dog, plus additional expenses. In particular, you should not fund dog breeding and/or buying activities with retirement savings, student loans, second mortgages, emergency funds, funds set aside for purposes such as education or home ownership, or funds required for current income to meet your living expenses."
by Donnerstorm on 01 September 2011 - 04:31
Very well said Hexe.
by steve1 on 01 September 2011 - 05:07
|For all you Guys who expect the earth in warranties and contracts when buying a Puppy.|
I can tell you now i have never had a Contract or Warranty for the last 5 pups i have bought. Never thought about one and never wanted one, I did my homework and i trusted the Kennels i bought from to do me right if something drastic went wrong.
Even in the case of little Heidi no fault of anyone's just an accident i was offered a free replacement of a Puppy of my choice at no cost at all to me, and i got one even to the point of picking out her Father before his Female was put to a Male.
That is trust on both sides, The same with my last two Pups from Germany the Breeder has pride in his single litter every year and he is a really honest Guy, in other words not out to make a quick Buck or sell dogs for a living he works a 5 day week But the Quality of his Females and the rearing of the Pups is second to none.
So my advice is to keep away from places where they churn out Pups for fun and do your homework thoughly before you commit your self and your money, then you will have an happier outcome that this fellow Wade has.