German Shepherd Dog > not right kennel?? (316 replies)
not right kennel??
by sable59 on 27 August 2011 - 15:11
| bought a pup from jinipo kennel in czech republic. this litter is on jinipos litter page as well as alpine kennels.|
the pup has a curled in ear , that i think is genetic. i hsve been discussing this with them.
now i got the papers 3 days ago and this morning i was filling out the papers for akc and ,low and behold, i look at the name and it is not
IMO JIRKOVA DVORA AND THE BREEDER IS NOT JINIPO.
THE PUPS NAME IS IMO OD ROUBENKY. AND THE BREEDER IS FISHER JAROSLAV.
i am pissed off to the max. am pissed over the ear but this broke the camels back.
this is the kind of misrepersentation that is occuring when you import a pup.
IT IS NOT RIGHT AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED!!
when a kennel sells a pup that they did not breed they should put the kennel name that did.
i am ,to say the least,disappointed at such actions vfrom a large breeder or breeders.
this will make the pup even harder to get rid of.
by Jenni78 on 27 August 2011 - 15:28
|Wade, can you post pictures of the ear? Is it possible it's an injury? How old is the pup? Any chance it will straighten out?|
Also, it's commonly known that Jinopo sells dogs bred by other people and I don't think it will affect your selling the pup in a negative way. I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect of it. I have seen many dogs sold that were imported as pups through Jinopo that didn't bear his kennel name.
Do you like the pup's temperament? I think there are many people who won't care so much about an imperfect ear on a really good pup, especially if it is an injury or congenital defect and not genetic.
Please post pics; you've got me very curious.
by eichenluft on 27 August 2011 - 15:59
|the ear is most likely not a problem - puppy ears go through all sorts of gyrations including curling as they try to harden up. if it's still a problem when he's finished teething, an ear form glued in might help straighten it up.|
I have no opinion about a breeder selling pups from another breeder - happens all the time. But the buyer should be informed, don't you think? To not inform the buyer who thinks the puppy is coming with the name of the breeder they are buying the pup from, is dishonest and shouldn't be something accepted as "right".
by Prager on 27 August 2011 - 16:24
|This is Debbie...Hans gone for the day. Spoke to him on the phone and he will post more later. Bady, the stud, belongs to Jinopo. Female belongs to someone else. Therefore pups are registered in females kennel name. This happens all of the time. Most times the female has also come from Jinopo somewhere along the line.|
As far as the ear goes if it is genetic we offer to replace the dog. Everything is discussed in our warranty in detail. Wade if I remember right reading some of the e-mails exchanged by you and Hans he has offered to go above and beyond the warranty, not even knowing for sure that the ear is genetic.
by GSDPACK on 27 August 2011 - 16:58
|My dog's ear was all sorts of funky until about 5 months of age when his premolars started coming in. He was VERY sturdy ears.|
Jinopo is NOT a kennel it is a umbrella business that has many other kennels under they breed. Jipo-Me, z Jirkova Dvora, z Blatenskeho Zamku.
In Czech the breeders work tightly together and they dont see such an importance in the kennel name as US customers do for the re-sale purposes. If you asked for a breeding from a specific male or if you liked breeding that they did with their partners they will sell through their company. If you do not specify that you want a kennel name, they will give you desired breeding not thinking that is a problem. In their eyes it is not.
This does not excuse or says it is right it is only an explanation as how the kennels work together. Kennel name is just a registry in the Czech.
Anywa I hope it all works out for you
by Chaz Reinhold on 27 August 2011 - 17:14
|Lol! Who gives a shit who bred the dog or what its kennel name is? I don't care if a dogs name is fluffy vom purple nurple. If it is a good dog and I actually liked the breeding enough to cough up $2000+, who cares if Norman Bates welped the litter? And aren't you the one that constantly promotes Hans Nd jiri?|
by Jenni78 on 27 August 2011 - 17:19
|Ask and ye shall receive. Debby's explanation makes perfect sense.|
It's totally normal and common for breeders to use their stud in exchange for pups instead of stud fees or other arrangements in which the resulting puppies' kennel name is not the name name as the stud owner.In this case, w/Jinopo, I thought it was common knowledge that they often have outside litters and broker many dogs.
Persnally, if I did this, I can see how it may be a forgotten detail if the buyer didn't ask specifically, as I may assume that if they knew the bitch wasn't mine, the pup wouldn't have my kennel name. Not only that, but you add a language barrier in there and I would be much more willing to put my money on miscommunication than intentional deceit. I guess most/many people wouldn't consider the name to be of importance in a breeding. I concentrate so much on describing temperament to people, I may very well forget something like a registration name as an issue to be clarified.
I agree w/Molly on the ears. I've seen them take all sorts of bizarre shapes in their journey to standing up;-)
I still want to see a picture of this pup!
by yellowrose of Texas on 27 August 2011 - 18:32
I agree with Molly and Jenn
Many puppies ears especially ones with big feet and big ears, take up to 7-8 months even to fill out and stand firm.
The most you can do is leave them alone and do not let any vet touch them
give your pup lots of knuckle bones (raw)
Raw meat has natural v C in it and do not let any other dog pull on ears of play rough.
The ears are the last to get needed calcium but do not give pills or supplements of calcium
Feed raw, juice off of Mustard greens or turnips juice in the dogs food, anything with calcium in it.
I would not worry unless you see the ear is really deformed
was it curled when the pup arrived??
Please post a picture...I am sure Hans will do what he can..THe problem being now is
HOW long to get a new pup and what do you do with this fellow..IS it male or female..
I aggree, the name is a concern..The reason being, so many misrepresentations can occur when importing. Did you not know what sire and dam you bought a puppy from before you paid your money?????
You should always ask copies of paperwork , before you finalize any sale, to be faxed to you , including all Vet records and health papers ahead of time, not after you pay your money.
We have to do it here, so when you use a broker , they should also provide all facts upfront, without hesitation
by sable59 on 27 August 2011 - 18:42
|debs message and some of the others don't make sense nto me|
the dog is 7 months old. his ear is notflopped it is curled inward from the head side. i will post a pic. my computer is out due to this storm and i had to come to a friends house to respond to debs above and beyond guarentee.
this is whart hans said his warrenty said. his don't matter as i bought the dog from jinipo but i expect they are the same.
send the dog back at my expense and get a new pup sent also at my expense. he asked what i wanted for the pup and i told him 2000 and he offered to try and help me sale him. who wants dog with a curled in ear?? if it don't matter you can have him for a mere 2000. that was hans 'offer.
now the facts about the name. i ordered the pup from jinipos litters. the bady x ussy litter. no wher does he state it is not his dogs which anyone would assume it is from the adverstment. who the hell is od roebunky? or something to that effect.that is the name on his regerstation. i bought a pup that waqs suppose to have had the jinipo kennel name. that is why i ordered this dog. his kennel name helps with the saLE OF DOGS.
now my point is , i have had severe health problems and need to sell all my dogs not just this one. i was deceived and anyone that don't see this is blind to the facts.
thay should have been open and upfront and said we did't breed this dog and we got a pick from the litter. do you want this pup?? it is wrong to adverstize a product as your and it not be.
becAUSE I BREED FARGO TO A FEMALE DOES'T MEAN THAT BREESDING IS MINE. IT IS AS DEB SAID THE KENNEL THAT HAS THE PUPS AND DOES THE BREEDING.
AGAIN, I DID NOT BUY A PUP FROM OD ROEBU8NKY OR WHATEVER.
I WAS GOINGTO LET THE EAR AND ALL GO AS I HAD UP TO THIS POINT NOT MENTIONED ANY NAMES ON ANY FORUM. WHEN I STARTED TO REGERSTER HIM WITH THE AKC AND SEEN THE NAME I WENT OFF THE DEEP END . I THINK MOST OF YOU WOULD IF YOU WERE TRUTHFUL.
WADE HATFIELD P.S. I WILL NOT ARGUE OR ANYTHING ELSE. I AM SELLING OUT AND IT IS NOT WORTH ARGUING OVER. MY INTENT IS TO LET PEOPLE KNOW HOW EASY WE CAN BE MISLED. I REALLY TRUSTED THESE FOLKS TO. BOY WAS I WRONG.
by sable59 on 27 August 2011 - 18:48
|JEN, THIS IS FOR YOU AND THE OTHER S. IF YOU SELL A DOG FROM YOUR KENNEL OR KENNELS AND DON'T LET THE PERSON KNOW AND LET THEM THINK IT IS FROM YOUR BREEDING<(AS I DID) THEN YOU ARE COMMITING FRAUD. I DID NOT USE HANES AS A BROKER. HE VOLUNTERRED TO DO IT.HIS NAME WQAS ALSO NEVER NOTHING BUT IMO.|
by MissinginAction on 27 August 2011 - 19:47
sorry to hear about your bad luck. at least this puppy is not the product of an undisclosed 11 month old brother/sister breeding. i sure hope this puppy finds a forever home, soon.
by Ace952 on 27 August 2011 - 20:01
|Ok it seems like Sable is upset that the pup doesn't have the last name of z JIRKOVA DVORA but rather has OD ROUBENKY. This in his eyes diminishes the value of the pup since he is selling it. If he would have known the dog would have had the name OD ROUBENKY then he probably wouldn't have bought it.|
Sable, IMO if you "don't know" who OB ROUBENKY is and have a problem with it, then why get a pup from a female that is from that kennel? Anyone who really wants a good dog will look at the PED of the dog and not just the last name. If you are trying to do a fire sale and just get rid of the dogs you have then ok, maybe the last name is a big deal as you can just say, "this is a z jirkova dvora dog so you know its good." That would be a mistake as not all z jirkova dvora dogs are great. How is the dogs training? How is the dog at 7 months? Most here will agree it is the workability of the dog that means more than the name. Did you ask about the last name since it is so important to you? The way it comes across is that the dog may not be any good and if it had the z Jirkova Dvora you could make more money to sell it but since it doesn't it hurts you as you are trying to unload it.
As for the last name and how Jinopo does breedings, that female isn't listed as a brood bitch on their website, only the male is. So in turn, Jinopo doesn't own her and the pups from that litter will carry the dam's name b/c she is owned by the OD ROUBENKY kennel. It makes sense.Jinopo is helping sell the pups and is promoting the breeding as it is their stud and they think it will produce good dogs. Also Jinopo maybe able to reach more buyers than OD ROUBENKY so it makes sense. I don't see anything wrong.
I hate to see you upset and riled up about this. You have spoken nothing but high praises for Jinopo and Hans and now you are calling them every name in the book, which is unfortunate. I hope cooler heads prevail and you all can find common ground.
by sable59 on 27 August 2011 - 21:10
|ace as chaz said also. i have always liked hans and have stood up for him on every turn. what i don't like is being deceived by anybody, especially someone i hold in high regards.|
it is like ace, i use fargo for a stud for a dog at jo blows kennel. you see the pups listed on my website. there is no mention of joe blow being involved in this breeding. you want a mlk dog. you get the papers and the name is not mlk but joe blow. youy gonna like it?? hell no!!!
i trusted jeri as a breeder and wanted his dog, not the litter pick from a breeding to someonelses dog. for a personel dog, someone might say well, he is a good dog and i will keep him regardfless. for a potential brood dog the name goes a long way.
if you have looked at my site over the years you have seen me post other pups for sale. AT ALL TIMES THESE PUPS WERE IDENFIED AS TO THE BREEDER. that is honest buisness.
like i said, i was upset over the ear and all the bs that it curtailed. i have alreadt got 3800 in the dog not counting the 368 vet bill as the pup had toxicity when i got him. i am not prepared to add more costs to a futile situation. http://www.youtube.com/user/mountainlakekennels1 this shows his ear also
by Jenni78 on 27 August 2011 - 21:34
|Wade, I really think you're blowing this out of proportion and getting upset needlessly. For your own sake, calm down and think about it from another perspective. Jiri does this ALL THE TIME. I'm sure it didn't even occur to him to clarify what kennel name the pup would bear, as it was disclosed what parents the pup was out of, and he doesn't own the female. Logic then would dictate that the kennel name would be the owner of the dam.|
I also don't see how it's deceitful...it was HIS stud, and on HIS website. It's not like he bought a puppy from the farmer down the road and pretended he bred it out of his stock; the puppy was a product of his breeding through the sire. I fail to see how this puppy is somehow of lesser quality because of his last name...as if he's some actor or model or writer or something who needs a specific, catchy name for publicity, lol. I think coming on here and losing your cool is going to do more harm than good. If you got the wrong puppy, I would see your point. But the wrong name (and it's only wrong because you don't like it) is not really grounds to get this upset, imo.
I guess I have never thought about the name of a dog. My kennel name certainly doesn't mean anything to anyone as I've only bred a few litters, but I certainly haven't had a problem selling them. And my foundation bitch doesn't have a big name, but a respected one if someone does their homework, and the bloodlines speak for themselves. I have honestly never once heard of anyone make a comment about a registered name who was serious about dogs and knew which end the leash goes on. One of my best dogs has no kennel name at all! No one has batted an eye about it. So, I really don't think you're going to have a problem getting rid of this poor puppy. If anything, the ear may be an injury or congenital defect, probably not genetic, and his name is not going to be an issue to anyone deserving of him. Just my opinion.
by Jenni78 on 27 August 2011 - 21:36
What is toxicity? Do you mean coccidia? If so, that's very common in times of stress and it shouldn't have cost you that much. I would be more angry with the vet.
by vonissk on 27 August 2011 - 22:14
|Maybe I need stronger glasses but I looked at the video and I didn't see anything wrong with his ear. I agree with Jenn I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.|
by sable59 on 27 August 2011 - 23:06
|you all don't know diddle shit especially you jenn. i wish this to happen to one of you, it doesn't matter guys. you will think different. |
by the way good dog cheap price 1800. now you all take a flying leap and get f---ed.
by GSDPACK on 27 August 2011 - 23:27
That is a nice dog, sell him to PD depatment.. this dog it on the table WAY too early but he is holding himself well for a young dog.
The rest I cant help you as I have sold my pick of a litter puppy from my male without my kennel name. However I told people the name of the kennel so I guess I was clear from the beginning.
by Ace952 on 27 August 2011 - 23:37
|I like the color on that dog. I do think it is too early for him to be doing box training as he doesn't even want to bite the pillow.|
Sable - I hate to see you act this way. Those comments and you going back and forth on 2 boards doesn't help you and you end up making yourself look crazy.
As a breeder, you should have easily known the last name of the pup. Im a newbie and knew what the name of the pup was going to be after looking at Jinopo's website. Sorry your upset and it is disappointing that you have decided to result to name calling and everything else.
by plsforever on 27 August 2011 - 23:52
|Your pup was Jiri's payment for the stud service I am assuming. The owner of the bitch gave him the pup with a damaged or genetic ear and he sold it to you. Americans pay a lot more for puppies than others and get the culls many times. Puppies from Czech Republic can be purchased for 300 to 600 over there. Jinopos name adds a big cost to Americans 1000 more lol.If you went to the owner of the bitch you would have paid no more than 600 US for pup you could pick out. His ear looks damaged but I cannot see it well but if your vet says it is genetic they should replace the pup. Genetic or not a damaged ear on any gsd makes it hard to sell period. All you people on this forum knows this fact is true. Wade will never get his money out of this pup. Czech breeders rarely replace puppies unless you live in Europe and can actually show up. I am sure American customers are laughed at for their stupidity as they pay so much for a puppy. Jiris son owns the shipping company as well. I agree wade you are getting hosed and think you have every right to post your opinion. I would be just as concerned about his working ability after watching the videos.|