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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Who's the new Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich? (29 replies)
Who's the new Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich? by Gusmanda on 27 August 2011 - 03:41 |
| So who is the modern day equivalent to Fero? Seems like he is in a great many pedigrees, wonder who is it now that many people desire to have their dams breed to? |
Gusmanda by Vikram on 27 August 2011 - 04:12 |
| Nick Vom Heilegenbosch. Alas he is not alive either however his progeny lives on cheers |
by Mystere on 27 August 2011 - 04:53 |
| Javir Talka Marda? Drago v Patriot seems to be used a lot lately. It may take a few years to see if they are producers of producers. |
Mystere by duke1965 on 27 August 2011 - 06:31 |
IMO no dog wiil ever reach the hypestatus of fero and troll anymore , since we have internet now
back than people went to breed to these dogs without ever seeing them work for a second , now people will ask for video , and to be honest , without questioning their qualities , im not impressed at all when I see the videos of ferro and timmy bosen nachb. etc , and wouldnot think of breeding them |
by darylehret on 27 August 2011 - 12:10 |
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darylehret by duke1965 on 27 August 2011 - 14:33 |
| the potency of those dogs will be clear if you devide the numbers of great offspring tho the humongous numbers of pups they produced also if I look at the videos of these dogs and also nick I dont see the genetic full grip , again video tells another story than humans again , Im not saying these werent great dogs or producers , only putting video against words , and the influence this has on stardom of dogs |
by darylehret on 27 August 2011 - 16:09 |
| So is our attention only drawn to the star progeny of Troll or Yoschy? I can't recall any blatantly bad ones, myself. Probably a lot of hectic types from Yoschy, and some unsociable types from Troll, but that's kind of a guess. The potency of their characteristics are plain, even if they are not always balanced correctly in a breeding. I don't know that grips are supposed to be a Nick strength, as much as the purported hardness he brings. I know that you use quite a bit of Cordon An Sat in your breeding but I wonder, had you ever the opportunity to watch him work? I would assume you can 'sense' the common strengths of his legacy among his decendants. |
by cphudson on 27 August 2011 - 18:01 |
| I agree with duke1965 that no other dogs will ever reach the hyper status of those dogs again. I do think most people would be happy to have the following dogs in their pedigree: Tim / Tom van't Leefdaalhof, Manto vom Kahlenbach, Crok vom Erlenbusch, Javir Talka Marda, Tyson von der Schiffslache, Falko vom Wolfsblick, Aly vom Vordersteinwald, Jago von der Lindenhalle, Quax von der Fasanerie Ernst vom Weinbergblick, Marco z Danaru, Branko & Paska vom Salztalblick, Orry (IT). I know I missed a few but can't think of them right now. other dogs; Cordon An-Sat, Dargo Ha-Ja-Da / Ox Jirkova dvora, Pike von der Schafbachmühle, Titus z Pohranicni Straze, Norbo, Mambo |
cphudson by duke1965 on 27 August 2011 - 19:41 |
| no daryll , I never seen cordon work himself , but have seen multiple ofspring overmultiple generations , and thats the dogs Im breeding on cphudson , ive seen more great offspring of norbos sire than of norbo , so I would say car , agree with dargo and titus , mambo and ox need to be seen in the future |
by steve1 on 28 August 2011 - 05:05 |
| cphudson You have a good selection at the top of your list and the dogs coming down from the Orry, Tom and Aly,Ernst, Quaz,Falco and Falco etc a generation or two down are proving there values at this time at least in the Dog sport what they are doing in other types of work and things like that i cannot say as it is not for the ordinary Dog person to know over in Little Belgium but for me you can train a brother or sister of a litter to do other work so i guess they are holding there own Regards the Czech Lines you mention they are few and far between in Belgium and not so much in Germany i do not know about elsewhere in Europe, i know they are sought after in the USA, but when i mention them over here they say they do not use them very often why that is something i cannot answer. Steve1 |
steve1 by duke1965 on 28 August 2011 - 05:53 |
| steve , the czech(and most other countries) korung is not accepted by the SV so they cannot be used for breeding in germany and other sv countries , unless they are trained trailed , shown and kored in germany , (or few other SV recognized countries) |
by Gustav on 28 August 2011 - 14:23 |
| Duke1965...thank you for that answer....the value of the dog as a working dog and competition dog is documented....but if the breeding registration process isn't fluid and accepted it will make for a decrease in use. In countries where that is not a problem, like USA, Canada, Mexico,etc, you will find them competing quite successfully in competition and definitely Law Enforcement. |
by steve1 on 28 August 2011 - 15:32 |
| duke1965 There is no problem with Training and getting Titles in Belgium or Germany with the Czech Dogs if the Papers are in order and registered to the Belgian Authorities so the dog can compete in trials in Belgium then it should be okay and qualified to be Korclassed in Belgium It is the same with my two Dogs bred in Germany, Gina i had to pay and get a signed Certificate from the VDH and send the original pedigree for them to stick it on the face page of the Pedigree, Then i have to take it to the Belgian side and get them to Stamp it more money Only then could i get a Work book KRUSH for the dog to be able to compete in trials. Now with young Pup Hektor i have to go through it all again but as yet his Pedigree has not come from the VDH yet, but as soon as it does i will go through the system I guess the Czech Dogs would need the same before we could get a qualified work book for them to compete. That may be why there are so few over in this country Steve1 |
by Gustav on 28 August 2011 - 18:14 |
| Right now I think Belgium has the top high level sport trainers in the world...they are producing excellent top competition dogs, as are the Netherlands through the KNPV training is producing some real nice LE dogs. I think that you probably would put Orry v HA in that upper eschelon with Aly and Asko especially in regards to top competition dogs. But, it will be hard to top Fero in the future because of the branching of the two brothers Troll and Timmy who gave big input into sport and civil dogs. |
by steve1 on 28 August 2011 - 21:07 |
| Gustav I what you say i agree, I watched some fantastic dog handlers today at the National Belgium Championships, Unfortunatly i had to leave to help out a friend who phoned me half way through so i do not know any results but the handlers were great, Looking at them two i think would go close and they only had one score each when i left a Girl and Julian Clements 3rd WUSV last year i think will go close to being Belgian Champion but i will not know for a few days That Dog Aly is showing up in a lot of good dogs i think he will be heard of for a few years ahead Steve1 |
by darylehret on 29 August 2011 - 02:59 |
| I think Aly has had more offspring compete in the WUSV than any dog in history already. |
by duke1965 on 29 August 2011 - 06:42 |
| steve your missing the point , if a dog is trained and trailed in czech it isnot accepted for breeding in germany , many germans wanted to use dogs like Tom zps , but were simply not allowed to do so by SV rules ofcoarse , any czech dog can go train and title in any country they want , but most czech owners symply dont |
by steve1 on 29 August 2011 - 17:22 |
| duke1965 Sorry' i should have said Puppies purchased from czech, They should have no problem getting the offical Papers changed to be able to get a work book in Belgium or Germany i would think Steve1 |
by darylehret on 29 August 2011 - 17:35 |
| I may be wrong, but I think the SV still fails to recognize the parentage of the pup, unless they are IPO titled or otherwise recognized by the FCI. |
by steve1 on 30 August 2011 - 08:33 |
| Darylehret If i buy a Puppy from Germany or any other country then i have to get a special Form officially signed by the Governing body of that country, and to do this in such a case of a German bred Puppy you have to return the original Pedigree to the VDH, First though you fill in a form with all relevant details you send this form to them with the Pedigree you pay through your bank 73 Euros which is about 106 USA dollars, in time they will send you back your Pedigree with this official page stuck on the front of the Pedigree, What we have to do then is to send the changed Pedigree with another form detailing what you want away to the Belgian organization for it to be approved and stamped But you again pay them another 100 plus USA dollars for the privilege Again in time you will get the Pedigree back Stamped and they send you with it a Yellow Work Book. You can then enter that dog in Competitions until you get this Yellow work book you cannot even get your BH, Now all this has been done with Gina i now have to go through it all again when i get Hektors Pedigree from the VDH or they may send it back to the breeder to send on to me. The Puppy is now 3.5 months old and still waiting for his Pedigree and it will take another 6 months to clear it up to get his work book from the time i send the Pedigree back to the VDH and our own body. So by the time i get Hektors work book he will be 9 to 10 months old Plus i will be over 200 dollars lighter. Steve1 |
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