German Shepherd Dog > What would you do if your vet did this....... (32 replies)
What would you do if your vet did this.......
by EKvonEarnhardt on 24 August 2011 - 03:03
|You take your dog in due to your contract states that the hips, elbows and Heart has to be checked at 12 months no later then 14 months for your warranty to good. You take the said dog in at 13 months and drop it off with instructions for the Hips, elbows and heart to be check. You even give your contract to the vet to let him know this has to be done.|
Later that day you pick up your dog and the vet says "the hips will not pass so I did not do the elbows and heart, there is no reason for you to spend the extra money on doing that or even sending in the hips to OFA. What do you do?
Now part two
The breeder is saying that the warranty has not been met as the contract states. To make matters worse the vet put the wrong AKC number on the paper work and film, which OFA will not accept. So after 3 months! the vet puts the right AKC number on the film (not new film, the old ones) and and you just now send the breeder a copy for thier file (which was to be done before 14months (now 16).
The contract is clear on what is to be done at what time you agreed to this Do you have any rights to a replacement puppy ?
by Jaclyn4238 on 24 August 2011 - 03:08
|The breeder has a clear contract so I would think you are not entitled to a replacement pup but IMO it would be the right thing to do on the breeders part. As for the vet, I dont know what I would do but it would not be pretty. Im not entirely sure what your options would be but im sure you have them. Im so sorry this turned out this way for you :(|
by lovejags on 24 August 2011 - 03:47
|You should have taken the dog in before it turned 13 months old, as that is what your contract stated. I don't think the breeder should be faulted, however if I were you I think I would get a new Vet. As far as the breeder giving you a new pup "because it would be the right thing to do" I do not agree with, but that would be between you and the breder. Just my opinion.|
by Bhaugh on 24 August 2011 - 04:04
|First off...did you ask to even see the hip films? If I pay I see. And you could have said right then, "In order for me to get a replacement I have to do this and this... because right then you were most likely thinking that you were going to ask for a replacement. So you spend some extra money. Now your most likely going to be out of luck.|
How bad were the hips? If a dog doesnt pass hips and the hips are bad, then the breeder should replace the pup. But again you didnt mention how bad the hips were and something tells me there is a bit more to this. You should have caught the flub up on the films to OFA. Ive made vets redo films for just that.
A contract where the dog has to pass all three may be tough and a way for the breeder to get out of replacing dogs. Ive never heard of it.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 24 August 2011 - 04:15
|So, you have him go do the x-rays he was supposed to do right then and there. You got mega punked by your vet. It also sounds as if you did not have your shit together when you went in. Now, you are just looking to not have the "dumbass" stamp placed upon your forehead. You agreed to the terms, and did not meet them. |
Now, since YOU did not meet the terms, YOU agreed to, you don't get shit. I would send the dog back to the breeder. Let them deal with it. I am telling you, enough people do this, and that breeder would be in big trouble.
Now, on the other hand, HD is polygenetic, and even with the best efforts, this happens. It could also be environmental, or food. Too me, this is like guaranteeing training. LOL This is the dog world, and you are throwing some really high numbered dice when you breed. Things go wrong.
I just tell them I will make it right. No hoops, just send the x-rays with the tatoo number or Akc number and how to get in touch with that vet.
by VonIsengard on 24 August 2011 - 04:37
|If you didn't follow the contract, you didn't follow the contract....but if I were the breeder I'd ask to see the xrays and if the dog does indeed show failing hips at 13 months, OFA or not, elbows/heart or not, I'd replace the dog. Lots of knucklehead vets out there, we all know that.|
Sorry you got stuck in a loophole, that really stinks. :(
by EKvonEarnhardt on 24 August 2011 - 05:24
|Ok I am not the one with the dog, I am the breeder, I am going though this with a client. This is the problem I have, This owner has had problems with the vet before NOT doing what she has asked. She had contacted me a week after she had the hips done and was sending them in. I asked her how much the fees were (in my contract I PAY the OFA/SV fees) when she said only 30.00 it throw up a red flag and I asked her about the elbows and heart. She had told me what her vet had said. I went over the contract with her stating that the elbows and heart was to be done. She had enough time to get them done IF she wanted too before the time was up. I have asked her four different times to send me a copy of the hips since May, it was not until today did she get me a copy. (she lives 15 minutes from me)|
As to Bhaugh statement "A contract where the dog has to pass all three may be tough and a way for the breeder to get out of replacing dogs." it is not hard to pass all three (both parents did) and is a way to start checking for more then just hips.
I have no problems replacing a dog that has hips issues my contract is as stated
11. All dog/puppies including spayed or neutered must have their Hips pre-limbed at the age of 13 months no later then 14 months. At that time Cardiac, also needs to be tested. ALL results need to be sent in to OFA to be checked (exception is ff Buyer chooses to send Hips and Elbow to SV to be read the Seller will pay for fees). All Veterinary cost are to be covered by Buyer. Seller will pay all OFA fees to have results checked (40.00). All x-rays must be clear and have micro-chip numbers, name of dog and veterinarian’s name engraved in to the film. Films must be position correctly, clear, and be accepted by OFA. If OFA send the film back due to errors the Buyer must have hips and/or elbows redone at Buyer’s cost (buyer will then have to pay the reading/scoring fee) A copy or picture of X-Ray must be sent to Seller for record). Picture of films must be sent to Seller no later then 14months of age. Seller will pay for the films and health test to be read and or scored (one time). ______
11a. HIPS: If your dog/puppy comes back with secondary arthritic bone changes along the femoral neck and head, acetabular rim changes and large amounts of abnormal bone pattern changes (Moderate, or Serve crippling), we will replace your dog/puppy with the next available litter only after the said dog/puppy is altered, registration papers are returned and signed back over to Seller and we receive a certified statement from OFA and /or SV. (Note: 30% of HD is Genetic only, while 70% is man-made/environment). The Buyer DOES NOT have to return said dog back in order to receive replacement dog. ________
by alboe2009 on 24 August 2011 - 06:16
|For what it's worth ....... If, (and I'm not here to judge), but if the scenario is as you stated. I side on your behalf. I don't care if it takes me 20 mins to read the contract, I'm reading it. My signature/initials needed? I want to know why and where. Common sense, in my eyes, second opinion..... check out a new vet.|
Case in point; I'm contacting my vet to schedule estrogen tests for Ana, her last heat. Just couldn't believe the cost but still scheduled. Then contacted others and my bud who raises Rotts tells me to contact his vet and wow, major price reduction. So, now call my vet , cancel appointment and proceed to a new vet.
You always have choices.
by YogieBear on 24 August 2011 - 12:36
Not to judge - I have been on both sides - Buyer and Seller - I feel that a contract is something you sign so there will be no misunderstanding between two parties.....It is that simple - it is in black and white - if one party fails to go by the rules - then they are sh** out of luck.
by ShadyLady on 24 August 2011 - 12:43
|EK, your client is an idiot. If you have a contract & they couldn't follow it, then I don't see how you are liable for anything.|
by starrchar on 24 August 2011 - 13:36
|EK, Legally, you of course have no obligation to replace the pup, but it would be good for business. The buyer did try to abide by the contract, but the vet screwed up. I'd insist on sending the films to OFA and based on the results, work something out with the buyer. My husband is in business for himself and he's had various clients over the years who have had problems which resulted in breaking or voiding the contract. If it seemed like a reasonable and honest problem my husband would work something out with the client. It has come back to him in a very positive way. He has a reputation of being a very fair and reasonable person to deal with throughout the community. Stuff happens in life and it wasn't as if this buyer deliberately did something to void the contract. JMO|
As for your original question, I'd change vets.
by hunger4justice on 24 August 2011 - 13:50
|I would ask for a second vet opinion. This sounds shady. Wrong id on flims? How do you know this is even your pups x-rays? The hairs are standing up on the back of my neck.|
by hunger4justice on 24 August 2011 - 13:51
|And I would BE THERE when the films were taken to make sure it is YOUR pup.|
by SitasMom on 24 August 2011 - 14:58
"If your dog/puppy comes back with secondary arthritic bone changes along the femoral neck and head, acetabular rim changes and large amounts of abnormal bone pattern changes (Moderate, or Serve crippling)......".
Much of what's listed doesnt' show until later in life (thats why the OFA waits until 2 years)...... and it seems that the breeder is only guaranteeing for Moderate or or worse Displacia....... after reading this contract, I would have put the pen down, stood up and walked out.
If I buy a puppy with a contract, I want the puppy to pass with Fair or better.
As for the vet, I would have asked for my money back and gone to a vet that can follow directions. Being very frustrated, I might have even asked him to pay for a replacement puppy because he didn't follow my directions....knowing full well that he wouldn't pay for a replacement.
by Nans gsd on 24 August 2011 - 15:15
|Well YES I feel a new vet is in order. So were those x-rays sent into OFA? If so, what were the results? If not, I would for the benefit of your dog REDO them, and I would definitely be there when they are done properly, labeled, elbows/heart. I would want to get the job done and follow your contract; even if it is a few months past the 12 mo. period, this is your dogs future we are talking about. It is worth trying to clean up this mess and give your dog the benefit of the doubt. It is the dog that ends up getting the short end of the stick here; setting the contract aside. Think about your dog. |
I think to save my reputation as a breeder and for the future puppy buyers and referrals if the hips come up not passing; that does not mean fair; but mild-moderate HD, I would definitely replace the dog. The 12 to 16 months should make no difference. The job got done properly so it ended up a litter later in time, that would be a cop out on the breeders part. AND I would not take the originals vet's opinion on the x-ray or anything else for that matter; he probably does not even know how to read the x-rays. Very unprofessional. He should have called you immediately and discussed further options. That is water under the bridge at this point though, but getting a new x-ray would be my first step. BOL NAn
by lovejags on 24 August 2011 - 15:41
|Well short and sweet, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH SHADYLADY!|
by EKvonEarnhardt on 24 August 2011 - 15:49
To answer some questions that were asked ,
by EKvonEarnhardt on 24 August 2011 - 16:04
Contracts are there to enforce the terms that both parties agree on . It lays it our in black in white to stop any misunderstandings. To set rules in place. For if we do not follow them (for what ever reasons) why do we do have them (because every person has a sob story).
by VonIsengard on 24 August 2011 - 16:18
|A mentor of mine once said what is in your written contract should be the minimum you are willing to do for your must unreasonable buyer. Out of curiosity, what did you think of the hip films?|
by Donald Deluxe on 24 August 2011 - 16:34
|If the dog is actually proven to be defective hip-wise as per the contract then I don't think a reviewing court would find in your favor simply because she didn't follow through on sending a picture or seeing if other faults existed (heart, elbows), or was late getting the OFA documentation to you. |
However, given that the buyer's vet is such an incompetent dolt and there is now doubt as to whether the hips are actually defective, I do agree with hunger4justice's advice to tell the buyer to go to a different vet to redo the X-rays and that you need to be absolutely sure that the dog being x-rayed is hers. And since the dog is now older than 14 months, then the buyer is out of luck if elbows or heart do indeed prove problematic.