German Shepherd Dog > What would you want your dog to do? (23 replies)
What would you want your dog to do?
by CleoJJ on 21 August 2011 - 17:01
|Say you are training obedience and put your dog in a platz and keep walking. Say you are 35 paces away and a man runs out and harrasses you. Would you want your dog to stay in their platz, obeying your order? Or would you like your dog to get up and intervene?|
by Donnerstorm on 21 August 2011 - 17:09
|Well Cleo, I don't know about others but I don't have sport dogs and mine are trained in handler protection, mine wouldn't be 35 paces away from me in a down stay, but if they were and somebody came "running" at me you wouldn't get within 5 feet of me, and yes I would expect that from them.|
by Laural H on 21 August 2011 - 17:09
He should protect his owner, of course, if you are talking about a German Shepherd whose instincs have not been bred out of the lines.
by Slamdunc on 21 August 2011 - 18:15
|I would expect my dog to remain in the down and not break the down for someone "harassing" me. Also a dog that won't let someone get with in 5 feet off it's handler can be a huge liability. If the handler is physically assaulted the dog should break the down, but not for someone yelling at the handler. IMO, the dog should not break the down or "intervene" unless there is some aggressive physical contact. For someone "harassing" the handler the dog should remain calmly in the platz until recalled to the handler or given a specific command.|
by Red Sable on 21 August 2011 - 18:46
|The girls say yes, he should break the down/stay, and the guy(s) say no. I think gender has alot to do with the answer. Not sure what is meant by harass, but I wouldn't scold my dog for breaking a down/stay if he put his hands on me, that is for sure.|
by english on 21 August 2011 - 19:02
|I would expect my dog to break platz at the first sign of trouble, and be within striking distance in case of any aggression. Especially if he/she is for protection.|
by desert dog on 21 August 2011 - 19:19
|Jim, as a police k9 I agree, as that would almost be a common scenario for a k9 handler to put into. As far as my dogs they would break command and procede to protect, and not just assist. But saying that I can stop dog in a heart beat. I want mine to come with every intent on taking the guy out only on command stop. It don't do me any good to have a ppd if the guy pops a cap in me, and I'm dead and dog is still in sit position.|
by Niesia on 21 August 2011 - 19:26
I don’t believe that any GSD would stay in their platz if they sensed real threat. It’s different in a sport field when the dog knows that’s “the game” and other in reality. While training dog should stay platz. If I’m not mistaken in PP training the dog should attack only on command.
My girl intervened only on two occasions without me asking for it. I didn’t ever realize that there was a threat until after she was on top of ‘intruder’ – with no warning.… I haven’t been harassed, my girl sensed his intentions and she wasn't wrong. When I leave my kids at home with babysitter my dog stays home, too. You know when you have a dog you can trust.
In my opinion, the only dog that wouldn’t do anything is the dog that is not naturally protective, prefers to run away than face the danger or doesn’t treat an owner as a pack member. I've seen that happen before. The owner gets harassed and the dog runs away...
by Slamdunc on 21 August 2011 - 19:33
|Not sure what is meant by harass, but I wouldn't scold my dog for breaking a down/stay if he put his hands on me, that is for sure.|
Hands on, the dog should react. Simply yelling or screaming the dog should remain in place, that is obedience. I would strongly suggest not letting your dog make the decision of when it is ok to bite someone running towards you or yelling at you. Joggers and spouses could be in serious jeopardy. The dog should be under control and not react at what it perceives as aggression. A physical assault is one thing, a loud argument over a parking space or something else is completely different.
This should not be a gender issue but a control and training issue. A dog with a weak temperament may perceive everyone to be a threat. A strong confident dog will not perceive the same situation as threatening. I haven't been able to train my dog to intervene on my behalf in a verbal argument. I really wouldn't leave those decisions up to a dog. The dog can be trained for handler protection where it reacts to aggressive movements towards the handler, this usually involves simulating a physical assault. Then and only then the dog can react aggressively with out command. You have to have a lot of control on the dog before training this. That is one of the reasons that breaking the down is not acceptable for anything other than an actual physical assault or command from the handler.
by Slamdunc on 21 August 2011 - 19:40
Going by what the OP describes as the "scenario" it is someone "harassing" them. I do not take "harassment" as a physical assault or an armed subject. Different situations altogether. If a "guy pops a cap in you" your dog will be of little help.
by desert dog on 21 August 2011 - 20:21
|I apologize to you my friend, I read it as an assult. my mistake jim.|
by yellowrose of Texas on 21 August 2011 - 21:04
I would expect my dog to remain in Platz as this is an obedience routine and the person is HARRASSING .
If this person is not hitting me , as the dog should be able to see, this is a routine, practiced many times.. the dog should know as no one else is intervening and he /she has been given a command. UNTIL I release the dog , which my dog should know if I thought this person not in my immediate touching reach, was attacking , I would have already commanded my dog to PAKUM....
IF the dog was in the park or with me on the street or I was in my truck...my dog would have free reign..to do as dog needed.
In this situation , you cannot have a dog on field , to break any command until told to.
THE trial field often has people, ducks, geese, other dogs break and get on or around field. THe dog should be entirely focused on what his master conveys to him.
If a man has a gun in his posession , I do not think , unless you really ticked off someone in USA, he would be at a dog practice or on a USA , dwg trial .
MAYBE so, but I would know , and already have signaled my dog.
The long down is one of the hardest besides the outs to attain...or down in motion...
by Red Sable on 21 August 2011 - 21:13
She said the man runs out and harasses, sounds like an action - more than just verbal. Maybe Cleo can clear this up. I'm also wondering, did this really happen?
by sueincc on 21 August 2011 - 21:19
|Platz is platz. I'm the boss, the decision maker, not my dog, my dog follows my rules - always, no matter what because he's the dog. If I were in the situation and someone put their hands on me in such an aggressive manner that I wanted my dog to intervene, I have a command for that situation too, but again, it would be my decision, and obviously since I am giving an action command, the dog would not be breaking the down. So no, my dog is never to break his down. I recognize there are people who feel it is necessary to train a dog to react on his own, I'm just decidedly and emphatically not one of them. This may come back to bite me in the butt if I put my dog on a down, then I fall into a well, so I die before my dog decides to run and tell someone or something, but that's a chance I'm willing to take because platz is platz.|
This has NOTHING to do with whether or not a dog is protective, protective is temperment not obedience. Jim hit the nail on the head. As a matter of fact, please know that with over protective weak nerve dogs, people BETTER have a rock solid bomb proof down.
by yellowrose of Texas on 21 August 2011 - 21:21
IN getting ready for trials and all kinds of obedience in Schutzhund, we often do these types of things..
In police training for the patrol dogs, or when you are in a protection phase , many different similiar tricks are done to try to get the dog to break his COMMAND
The person ran toward the person on field but it did not say he hit , it says he is harrassing.
We do this all the time in practice fields to keep the dog ready for anything. IF the master , commands the dog to come and break the platz he will..If not the dog is to stay where he is told to platz..
PS: NO where did the poster indicate it is LEO training.
by Red Sable on 21 August 2011 - 21:25
|Thanks YR. I wasn't sure if this was a planned training session, or she (he?) was just out working the dog and some idget came out and harassed her. |
I also agree the dog should be obedient.
by yellowrose of Texas on 21 August 2011 - 21:34
|Yes Rd Sable, the poster didn't specifically say it was a trial field or a sceduled training trick ,but where it is or is not,,,same thing applies|
We have in our possession a dangerous MOUTH and a lot of power in a jaw , in our control , platzed on a ground and we walk 35 paces away and the dog must always wait his MASTERS intent , of COMMAND>
AT ALL TIMES>>>> a person yelling is known ... a person jumping out of a bush on a walk is different..the dog still should not attack , but dog should maintain a BARK AND HOLD>>>
THE dog should immediately show the intruder , I AM DOG>..and then the master will ccommand the dog to do what the master wants.
The law of our land says,,,you cannot take the law in your own hands, by using a gun or a dog.
The dog can protect but should be taught proper proceedure to take the intruder down and hold for law or owner to use his billy club...no not really...I think a baseball bat is better....I am kidding of course..
I want no dog on my property to ever attack anyone unless I am not home and they come over my fence and procede to my front door...
THEN it is body bag time...
I actually never leave my dogs outside for them to get shot or killed to obtain my front door. I put the dog on the inside.
by Laural H on 21 August 2011 - 22:06
Jim I too was thinking assault when I read harassment. Someone coming at me yelling and threatening, like someone would do that to a chunky old bat like me, and if they did, yes I would consider them a threat.
No the dog should not decide to break the command, but I probably would have recalled them when I saw someone coming at me who was not acting friendly.
This way they would be close by and that is usually enough for the stranger to change their direction if not aimed at me or their attitude.
Also in my first post when I said the dog should break the down does not mean they should attack. I want them to return to my side.
Someone sneaking around that I don't see, I want them to alert me to the problem not go on the attack. I prefer them to return to my side and then I decide what action they should take.
Someone put their hands on me in a threatening way, yes they may bite away. They need to protect their dinner ticket.
by CleoJJ on 21 August 2011 - 22:40
|This is not something that I have come across in schutzhund, I was merely curious as to what people would want out of their dogs.|
I meant that if a stranger runs towards the owner/handler, yelling, but not actually touching the owner/handler.
I honestly can't decide what I would prefer my dog to do, but I think it's a good point that if a stranger physically hurt the handler, few dogs would stay in a down.
by Chaz Reinhold on 21 August 2011 - 23:53
|I would want my dog to run to the vehicle and jump in his crate. I've spent way too much time and money training him to possibly get hurt. Besides, I wouldn't want him watching me bitch slap a human. He may lose all respect for mankind.|