German Shepherd Dog > BRITISH SIEGER WORKING PARTY - PRESS RELEASE Re OFF LEAD GAITING (28 replies)
BRITISH SIEGER WORKING PARTY - PRESS RELEASE Re OFF LEAD GAITING
by Alyson R on 08 August 2011 - 19:38
|BRITISH SIEGER WORKING PARTY - PRESS RELEASE |
With effect from the 2012 British Sieger it is intended that off-lead gaiting will be required in all Adult and Working Classes. In order to facilitate the transition and to allow time for the introduction of this new requirement the British Sieger Working Party has amended the rule for this year only as follows:-
In 2011 the males & females in the Adult classes (standard and long coat) will have the option to either complete one lap on a loose lead with no outside calling OR complete one lap off lead. This will take place during the individual stand examination.
The purpose of off-lead gaiting is to allow the judge to evaluate the natural movement of the GSD without the restrictions of the lead or influence of the handler. The Judges will be briefed that poor heelwork or control must not be a factor in assessing the dog, and the movement itself will be the deciding factor.
BRITISH SIEGER WORKING PARTY
Issued by Alyson Reilly
BRITISH SIEGER WORKING PARTY
by Abby Normal on 09 August 2011 - 07:14
|No 'good news, great decision', 'thanks for listening to us and taking our views into account' after all the fuss? |
I'll say it then. Well done BSC, for adjusting the timescale to allow entrants sufficient time to be fully prepared for the OLG next year, but also for gviing those who are already preparing to 'have a go' a chance to do so this year.
by jaymesie51 on 09 August 2011 - 07:47
|Why on earth should the open classes be subject to off lead gaiting at all, if you want to do off lead gaiting there are classes to cover it You are taking away peoples choice and i honestly thought that that was what all of this was about CHOICE. It is not about whether or not a dog can do off lead gaiting it is about taking away our choice , so i for one do not agree with it. Why do people want to fix things that are not BROKE>,|
by missbeeb on 09 August 2011 - 08:29
I agree Jim, however, I do think there should be a proper working test (BH?) introduced... perhaps starting (compulsory) January 2014, thereby giving one and all time to train and really get used to the whole idea; I think this should be a mandatory part of the Breed Survey. It's tough because I agree about "choice" but I also think we have to move on to continue to improve.
Off lead gaiting proves no more than loose lead gaiting, on its own.
by kazzie on 09 August 2011 - 15:32
Its Simples TRAIN YOUR DOGS !!!!!!!
by jaymesie51 on 09 August 2011 - 16:38
|I do train my dogs all of my dogs will sit,stay give a paw ly down come when called and believe it or not 2 can even do of lead gaiting but have not been trained to do so they will go round the ring by there self, the point is not about training our dogs it is about taking away the choice if i want to do olg then i can train my dog in SchH and enter it in the working class if i want to just show it then provided it has a breed survey then i can show it in the open class that is choice|
by Videx on 09 August 2011 - 21:53
|Another mistake, removing choice, something crucial to exhibitors. When an adult dog gets loose outside into the public space around the ring and knocks into or over a toddler or a frail elderly person, precisely WHO will be responsible?|
Those exhibitors who are old, disabled, unfit, will now not only have to arrange for a handler, but also for off lead gaiting “training” for their dogs and for whoever handled the dogs for their off lead gaiting to accompany then to the British Sieger 2012. Maybe NOT entering is the more obvious choice for them?
It is becoming clear that the whole idea of the Adult Classes (my idea) at the British Sieger Event, which was to offer all those that do NOT wish to follow the German SV System of exhibiting, with all or some of their GSD, will have a CHOICE is being very seriously undermined.
That choice should be:
1) They could show at Kennel Club Shows
2) They could show at the British Sieger Event (by adhering to the health requirements and the Breed Survey for the Adult Classes. The Breed Survey would develop carefully and VERY gently and slowly over MANY years ALWAYS BEARING IN MIND that the Health Requirements are fundamental and the need to recognise that these are available throughout the UK through Vets, and everybody can have these done. TRAINING ON THE OTHER HAND IS NOT AVAILABLE IN MOST PARTS OF THE UK and is NEVER likely to be and many people are physically incapable of doing much of SV type training . Germany has over 2,000 yes two thousand training clubs, with 3 or more is some towns, and with all training facilities, helpers, tremendous community spirit and help and over 100 years to develop, hone and polish their system.
For GODS SAKE when will these SV purists and utterly SELFISH people “SMELL THE COFFEE” and realise our British Sieger Event and our Regional Events are for EVERY GSD OWNER IN THE UK.
Study the British Sieger Committee - How many Show GSD? Those that Show, how many show in Germany? How many represent the vast majority of British GSD exhibitors who do NOT train their dogs to even do part of the German SV System and don't even want to?
The name of OUR Event is a great big clue = BRITISH SIEGER
by Abby Normal on 09 August 2011 - 22:21
The regional events as well as the Sieger do not cater for those who are elderly or unfit or who cannot afford a handler due to gaiting whether on or off lead. I've said before that this style of showing will not appeal to the exhibitor who wishes to handle their own dog, but cannot race flat out around a ring, or who do not want/cannot afford the services of a handler.
by Videx on 10 August 2011 - 00:22
|Having over 35 years of breeding and exhibiting GSD very successfully and attaining Championship status and awarded CC's in various countries including approx. 30 times in India, also in Australia, the Philippines Sieger Show, had to cancel a Championship Show this coming November in Israel through health reasons, and known to judge without fear or favour. I have also had many dogs trained in Germany up to Schutzhund 3 level and Korung by several of the best trainers in Germany, and also shown Germany, including the German Sieger Show, the Dutch Sieger Show and the Belgian Sieger Show quite successfully. Not forgetting my considerable knowledge of Rules, Regulations, Constitutions and systems etc. I feel somewhat well qualified to comment on our British Sieger Event. Unlike others (Abbey N) for example, who doesn't know much about anything GSD and doesn't even appear to understand that our present British Sieger offers both the FULL SV System and a FULL British System (similar to GSD breed Club KC Championship Shows) but with some very important additions. Namely proper identification, proper health REQUIREMENTS, (unlike those in the KC discredited Breeders Scheme, which should carry a health warning) A Gun Test and culminating in a GSD Breed Survey for the Adult Classes. So anyone can now see that this is far superior than the KC GSD Championship Shows AND the additions are what our GSD Breed have requested from the KC over many many years.|
Now we are MASTERS of our own destiny, it looks like we are going to OVERPLAY our own authority to the detriment of the VAST majority of Germanic exhibitors.
If the British Sieger Committee cannot control their urges to bring in additional requirements to the ADULT CLASSES, can I respectfully suggest that they LEAVE THE EXISTING ADULT CLASSES ALONE, and introduce ADULT PLUS (+) Classes - 1 for males & 1 for Females.
Then they can do and add what the hell they like to these ADULT PLUS(+) Classes. They can tinker away at their hearts content with the ENTRY REQUIREMENTS for these Adult Plus(+) Classes as often as they like. Very few will enter anyway that's for sure. But at least they can then leave the very important Adult Classes alone.
This WILL maintain CHOICE and it will even increase CHOICE for British GSD exhibitors- without any frustration or disappointment to anyone.
OR IS THAT JUST TOO DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO UNDERSTAND?
by Abby Normal on 10 August 2011 - 08:17
|LOL @ Videx. I don't know what you were reading, but I did stress that the requirement would be a breed survey. Any other requirements could be added, but no gaiting at all, so as to include ALL potential exhibitors.|
I think you will find that the powers that be (not you) will introduce whatever they wish to introduce. Perhaps they wish to ensure that eventually progress towards the 'correct' GSD including proven working ability for all GSDs, will be made. Frankly you seem to have a desperate desire to achieve a german grading, whilst missing out some of the most important features that should go with it.
Meanwhile, I who know nothing about GSD (LOL) will just sit back and watch the whole new way of showing slide into oblivion.
Good luck to you all.
by bazza on 10 August 2011 - 09:09
|Correct GSD?????? Hopefully NOT your idea of correct, we have all witnessed that, lol. Abby stop sticking your neb into things you have no clue about, stick to RESCUE and leave this subject to the folks who are ACTIVELY invoved on a day to day basis. Or is it your obsession with Videx and every post he makes that you just can't keep your ignorance leashed? Sad, sad, sad but PRICELESS!!|
by Mackenzie on 10 August 2011 - 13:03
I think that the Press Release third paragraph shows that the subject has not been thought out properly.
“ The purpose of off-lead gaiting is to allow the judge to evaluate the natural movement of the GSD without the restrictions of the lead or influence of the handler. The Judges will be briefed that poor heelwork or control must not be a factor in assessing the dog, and the movement itself will be the deciding factor.”
Firstly, off lead gaiting was introduced by Hermann Martin at the Sieger Show for the first time in the year that Iso v Bergmannshof was made Sieger. A well known judge, who has judged in the UK many times, was standing beside me and said “ if I want to see dogs racing I will buy a greyhound“. It was a spectacle put on for the public. However, that is all it is and should be treated as such. When I was the ring helper for Herr Meyer many years ago he asked me in every class to slow the dogs down because he could not make a proper assessment of the movement and, that was when the dogs were on the lead!!
Secondly, the second sentence is off the planet. It implies that off the lead heelwork will be acceptable in assessing movement if done at any pace but usually associated with walking and, to add to that “control” must not be a factor in assessing the movement of the dog and, the movement itself will be the deciding factor. So, with an animal that can successfully achieve a few metres of off lead work and then decide that he has had enough and perhaps pick a fight with another dog, or, bite an onlooker or physically harm someone will be judged acceptable whilst it is not under any control. Presumably the orgainzers of the show will be prepared to pick up the tab should this happen. Of course the will not and nor will their insurers.
The thing that could satisfy off lead gaiting is that every dog had a minimum of a BH qualification. A demonstration of reliable control through a test. I say this because the UK has few home bred dogs that can make a higher qualification such as Sch H1. We must remember that not all dogs that are bred are suitable for the bite work which is a dangerous exercise to take on. In my opinion all gaiting whether it is online or offline should be at a working pace for a working breed such as ours.
by Videx on 10 August 2011 - 13:58
It is becoming apparent that many people in the UK fail to grasp that our BRITISH SIEGER includes the full SV "SIEGER" SYSTEM - this exists in every class for dogs aged 12 months and over, culminating in the Working Classes, in which dogs can be awarded the ...ultimate SV award VA & SIEGER Titles. THIS MUST NEVER BE OVERLOOKED.
The Adult Classes are an EXTRA which allows ALL GSD who have not gained their SV qualification (the vast majority in the UK) to also enter and compete in our British Sieger Event, as long as they meet the entry requirements, which are fundamentally underpinned with Health Requirements.
What we have is ENOUGH. It does NOT need any additions. We have EVERYTHING desirable for our British Exhibitors and Foreign Exhibitors - why the hell should be make any changes. We should insist on the STATUS QUO for at least 5 years.
by Abby Normal on 10 August 2011 - 14:24
|Correct GSD?????? Hopefully NOT your idea of correct, we have all witnessed that, lol|
Really Priceless? and where exactly have you witnessed that?
by JJR on 10 August 2011 - 15:43
|Fantastic - at long last!|
by Videx on 10 August 2011 - 16:58
|JJR: what do you mean "at long last"??????|
You can enter your GSD in the Working Class at the British Sieger Show AND do the protection test prior to the show assessment.
You have a dog with SchH3 - all your dog needs is a Korung and you can enter and show in the Working dog class.
This has been available at the British Sieger Event for many years.
What we are talking on this thread about is the ADULT Classes.
engage brain - check FULL details - and away you go.
Our British Sieger is not simply for Working Dogs - it is FULLY inclusive, NOT EXCLUSIVE and based on Health Requirements.
Point of information: many of my GSD have Schutzhund/Korung, and I have been having GSD trained in Germany for well over 10 years. I CAN AFFORD TO, many cannot. i DO NOT SUPPORT IN ANYWAY "ELITISM" - and being elitist, goes along with being SELFISH.
by bazza on 10 August 2011 - 17:33
|From your own acidic mouth my little rescue worker, lol. PRICELESS.|
by Abby Normal on 10 August 2011 - 18:43
|Priceless my dear boy - do please elaborate, your reply, as ever, is vague! I am most curious to see what it is that you are referring to.|
Oh dear, you say 'rescue worker' like it's it's a dirty word !?! But not to worry, that's not my 'day' job................
And acidic? well I could almost say that's priceless......oh the irony.
by bazza on 11 August 2011 - 06:32
|Dirty word, where did I say that? As usual twisting everything to suit your purpose, lol. The only thing that's VAGUE around here my sweet is your knowledge of anything GSD, and don't you worry I know that's not your day job, believe me, lol.|
PRICELESS my dear, absolutely PRICELESS!!!!!!!
by Abby Normal on 11 August 2011 - 08:46
Priceless - STILL vague! I am still waiting for your evidence to support your assertion of my idea of correctness that you claim *all* have witnessed. (BTW I include proven working ability to be part of the overall term 'correct').