German Shepherd Dog > Tired Of IT!!!!! (84 replies)
by Gustav on 28 July 2011 - 02:31
by Firedist8 on 28 July 2011 - 03:20
|I am so happy that there have been so much debate and answers. Thank you!|
by troublelinx on 28 July 2011 - 03:37
by Firedist8 on 28 July 2011 - 04:21
by steve1 on 28 July 2011 - 04:53
|I put my wording wrongly in my last post i said i TREAT my fellow man, That was the wrong saying , It should have been i get on BETTER with Dogs, Animals and Birds than i do of those of my own species, that post must have come across a little poor even if no one mentioned it|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 28 July 2011 - 06:24
|Quote: I hear many of you comparing a dog's reproductive system to a human, which is fair|
WHAT ?? So, pups nurse for a couple years ?? Bitches are preggers for 9 months ?? Please tell me this was a typo, and you meant NOT fair.
Most people are GUESSING that a bitch cannot handle being bred back to back. I have done it many times, and I have not seen some crazy thing going on that I would not do it again. Sometimes the bitch will just not take, but most of them do, and are fine. Dog food is way hot, that is why we have all these diet type foods, as there is a lot of good stuff in modern dog food.
Globetrotter, you are speaking of a specific incedent with a specific breeder, are you not ? I just want to make sure that all those tiny words close together with hardly a paragraph I might have missed something.
I can assure you, if I had a bitch that dropped 20-30 pounds from breeding, that she would never be bred again. Ki Ki was fat for Gods sake, and after a month or so, I had to run her a bit to get the weight off.
by steve1 on 28 July 2011 - 07:51
I said a Bitch could be bred more often, Once a year will not hurt them it is a natural thing so long as it is not abused, However i said not back to back because if you do over here then you must miss breeding from that female for a while so once every two Heats is okay you do not miss any time at all that way so you really gain nothing by breeding back to back. I think to many people have to put there dogs in cotton wool to protect them, It all comes down to how you feed and look after the dogs in the first place that counts for everything I have not bred Dogs but they are no different to anything else.
The Female must be in A1 condition and fit before being bred from that is the most important thing of all. You only gets out what is already in there to start with
by Jeff Oehlsen on 28 July 2011 - 11:26
|Quote: However i said not back to back because if you do over here then you must miss breeding from that female for a while so once every two Heats is okay you do not miss any time at all that way so you really gain nothing by breeding back to back.|
Depends on what you are trying to do for me. Sometimes you have a small window of opportunity to breed to a dog and need to take advantage of that. Sometimes you are seeing which stud produces better.
By no means do I think that people should be just breeding and breeding and breeding without a plan. I just object to people saying how horribly cruel it is to the bitch and all the rest of the opinions of the never have done it, but it must be horrible because I say so crowd.
It is the spreading of lies that bugs the crap out of me. Don't abuse the bitch, feed her good food, and lots of good extras, and I really doubt that you will have any major problems. I have done it before, and saw nothing out of the ordinary from the bitches I bred that way. I had a couple of bitches that produced much better than themselves, and that is truly a rare thing. Yes, yes I bred them back to back to back. If I would have seen any sign of weariness, a lack of stamina, or hair loss, or any small thing, I would have stopped. I stopped because I did not need to use her for the time being. They were great mothers, and great aunts. They were perfectly happy with pups.
Then, someone starts a thread, and it is HORRIBLE, and HOW COULD YOU, and THE BITCH IS BEING ABUSED, and so on and so forth. I am not a mean person. I have never needed a litter so badly that I would breed a bitch that was out of shape and listless. None of my females acted like that. I feed purina dog food at the time, and gave preggers extra meat and fat and that was it. My biggest problem was feeding time, as they would jump up like idiots and my biggest fear was that they would squish a puppy. How is that cruel ? They wanted to play ball, and here their tits are all hanging and they just want me to throw the ball over and over.
How is that cruel ? How can anyone say that the bitch has not fully recovered ? Goofy talk.
by jamesfountain98 on 28 July 2011 - 13:23
I actually meant it was fair to compare the recovery time of a preg bitch to a preg human.
If a human female can have a baby every 1-2 years then her recovery time is only around 3- 6 months before she is pregnant again (i know a lot of modern day career women, may not agree, lol). This is also depending on the age, health, and other stress factors of the human. So why wouldn't a dog be physical capable of doing the same? Dependant on age, health, diet, and environment.
by ShadyLady on 28 July 2011 - 15:22
The human female's body is ready to have another baby, 6-8 weeks after the birth of the current infant. It's the human mind that can have a hard time accepting it...
Some people have a hard time accepting pets as the animals the are, not little people in fur coats. The term livestock doesn't equal abuse, or the lack of good care & attention.
by ALPHAPUP on 28 July 2011 - 15:38
|trouble .. there are differentiations .. e.g sociaopaths , by the exact psychological defintion .. , cultural difference too .. .. such as those cultures that eat dogs .. or considered them in their history as worse than vermin .. i know you people chuckle ,i understnad the LOL .. but .. i find a hard time to LOL when seeing how people treat their dogs ,.... seeing the realism ... seeing , the poor abusive treatment in families as well .. i have had people coming to me to make the dog that their husband mistreated , become a protection dog because they were scared to death for their life too.. [ after seeing the dog .. my only offer of help - was for them to call me in the event of a threat ].|
Look how many dogs are in shelters ?? look how any children are abused ?? .. human behavior at times is- not all that funny: to me .. I have found in my life ... canines and chlidren to be ... THE MOST FORGIVING of all ... out of the living things . what happens to many a GSD i find beyond the description of hearbreaking !!..............and i like someone to prove me wrong .. by going to sheltesr or a reascues .... and thencoming back saying to me ... what are you talking about .. i didn't find any GS/[dog] there !!
by Jenni78 on 28 July 2011 - 15:47
|Agree with Jeff.|
And, as a human who has had a baby (and about the worst complications you can have w/a pregnancy, so don't think I'm saying it's easy because I personally had an easy time) I see nothing wrong w/breeding a bitch back to back. In fact, I have seen far better recovery and general health when you breed a healthy bitch (who is a good candidate for breeding in the first place!) often and younger, rather than once a year or every other year into their later years. Personally, if I could, I'd have a couple kids right in a row when my body was young and in shape for it, rather than take a couple years off and go through the hormonal and physical roller coaster again.
Wanted to throw in a woman's perspective before Ace and Jeff get torn to shreds;-)
Shadylady, right on.
by steve1 on 28 July 2011 - 16:07
|I for one have already agreed with them, But when you Guys say Back to back do you mean a litter and on the next Cycle another litter and finish or carry on back to back a 3rd time, That is not allowed over here with the Belgian Federation or the SV only two times then a complete Year or more off breeding, There is to much codling of these Dogs and many people treat them like Children they are Not and cannot be put into the same context, Come to think of it to many Children get Molly Codlled as well, In the end it does them no good at all no more than it does dogs|
by troublelinx on 28 July 2011 - 17:07
The only part that I would dispute is the corelation that a person who is mean to his fellow man is also mean to his dog. A people pleaser personality would be nice and agreeable to you but may go home and kick the dog or slap it with a newspaper.
also have you noticed how many dog people are divorced or have been divorced at least once. It seems to me to be a disportionate number among real dog people. Evidentially someone was not treating their mate well. Does this mean the dog got abused and beat? No, I dont think so. And yes it is sad when a dog has to suffer behind an "a" hole. Just seems to be an overgeneralization that you make.
by Jenni78 on 28 July 2011 - 19:06
|Steve, when I say back to back, I mean any time that a dog is bred on 2 heats right in a row.|
by steve1 on 28 July 2011 - 21:11
|Yes, and then over here you have to wait for another 12 months or more before breeding from the Female again after back to back breedings, I see nothing wrong in that the Dog should be fit and lean after rearing its pups and a bit of a rest inbetween until the next cycle|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 28 July 2011 - 21:23
|QUOTE: Wanted to throw in a woman's perspective before Ace and Jeff get torn to shreds;-)|
Show me one thread where anyone even came close. Other than maybe two, every answer has been from a woman, but no breeders. It is fun to watch people just not fucking get this. They still try and put their spin on it. Most breeders in this country are women, and you can see we are still getting our dogs imported. Maybe, OH just MAYBE, that in and of itself should be telling people something.
I personally think if you only breed once every two or three years, you do not get to call yourself a breeder. What are you really going to learn ? Back to back breedings are no big deal to people that actually breed dogs. If a bitch is not healthy enough to do this, then you need to look at what you are feeding, or housing, as they should be spayed or fed better.
by Jenni78 on 29 July 2011 - 02:12
|Jeff, what in the hell are you talking about?|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 29 July 2011 - 06:13
|I was going to get torn to shreds ?? Really ? I guess this is what you are asking. : P|
by Jenni78 on 30 July 2011 - 12:39
|It seems that every time a man conveys a less than uber-sensitive view on labor and childbirth, there is a flock of angry hens ready to peck his eyes out...Ace was walking close to that line and so were a couple others that I'm too lazy to go back and identify. I was just saying that even as a human female who nearly died when I had my son, I STILL don't see where it's the same thing, or that breeding a bitch is that stressful and cruel, regardless of whether it's back to back or not; this is a logical conclusion, and I was trying to show that in case someone read it and thought it was just a chauvanistic perspective. That's all, Jeff.|
I have only ever bred one female. I have had others that I decided not to breed, so my breeding experience is only with Capri. I'm told that my perception/opinion is skewed by the fact that she's such an easy breeder/whelper, looks great, acts totally normal, and literally jumps out of the box and will play ball or tug w/Caleb in between dropping pups. Drives me a lttle crazy sometimes, and I used to worry about her doing this, but I relaxed and decided she can do what she feels like doing and I should just be happy that she's so strong and healthy, mentally and physically.
My opinion is that a female who acts in the manner that makes people think breeding is too stressful and abusive should NEVER have been bred in the first place. I have to defer to Darwin in this situation. This is why I guess I don't see anything horrible about a breeder retiring a 6 yr old and putting her in a pet home, and whether/what they charge for her is none of my business or concern, so long as they make sure she has a nice home.