German Shepherd Dog > Fun with show toons (199 replies)
by Sunsilver on 23 July 2011 - 04:12
|Donald, a gently sloping back can be straight. I didn't say LEVEL, but straight. No, it's not straight as a ruler, but it's straight compared to a dog with a roached back and C-shaped topline.|
by 4pack on 23 July 2011 - 04:27
|Correct Sunsilver, no Hunch Backs of Notre Dame. The one dog I had that with a back like that couldn't jump for shit and was stiff as all hell at 5yrs old. My ugly GSD with a dipped back ran like a Grey Hound and could jump anything. The slope they refer to is higher at the shoulder, lower at the hip. Not "square" as is correct in other breeds.|
by Donald Deluxe on 23 July 2011 - 04:58
|Deanna - Andrjuscha van Noort? |
LOL - he was one of the four adult GSDs in crates on a pallet at the Lufthansa cargo terminal when I went to pick up my female puppy at the airport in Boston in September 2009. She was in a puppy crate strapped on top of the four adult crates, and was SCREAMING her head off because she was extremely angry that she had not been fed since the day before. She was screeching when I picked up her papers and drove across the harbor to get the Customs stamp. She was screeching when I got back and stuffed her crate into my SUV. And she screeched all the way back to my house during the hour drive, except during the brief moments her mouth was occupied with either the cookies I passed through the grate of the crate (or my fingers that held them, LOL). So I doubt Andrjuscha or the other three dogs slept a wink on that flight!
Now for the pedigree stuff. Andrjuscha is a Hill vom Farbenspiel son, and Hill is known for producing some decent working showlines. To find out why, click back on the sireline until you get to Mutz von der Pelztierfarm. He is one of the four pillars of the modern German Shepherd, along with Marko vom Cellerland (line has more or less withered today), Canto von der Wienerau (spectacular black and red dog noted for passing that on, along with shit temperament), and Quanto von der Wienerau (on balance, at the time considered a dog with good GSD temperament).
Mutz von der Pelztierfarm went VA2 in the World Sieger Show in 1970, so yes, he was a show dog. However, you will find him in the pedigrees of 90% or more of today's working dogs, as he was bred heavily to working bitches of the time. In fact, one could argue that he is at least as influential in the creation of today's working dog lines as Bodo and Bernd Lierberg were, or Fero vom Zueterner Himmelreich, or Crok vom Erlenbusch, or any other influential working dog of the last 50 years.
The primary branch of showline dogs emanating from him also were known for having some decent working ability. Look for names like Cello von der Romerau, Eros von der Luisenstrasse (Hill vom Farbenspiel's grandfather), and Dux de Cuatro Flores, a Hill vom Farbenspiel son who went VA-3 in 2007 at the World Sieger Show on a torn ligament that had been surgically repaired only weeks before - per Videx a/k/a David Payne, the judge who eventually judged that show judged him a month previously in a regional show, placed him V1 as a nod to his career notwithstanding the fact that he was hobbling on his bum leg, and then praised his career while suggesting that it was over. So much for that! Dux also delivered a very good Schutzdienst performance at the World Sieger Show; there was some pretty good video of that online at one time that I can't find now, but in any event he was one of about a dozen dogs who received special acknowledgment for good routines (and half of those so recognized were working lines dogs looking for their V show rating even though they obviously had no hope of becoming World Sieger).
by Donald Deluxe on 23 July 2011 - 05:04
|However, lines only go so far and eventually it all comes down to the individual dog. Case in point: I own a 5 year old Dux de Cuatro Flores son. He will not bite. Period. Will play with a bite pillow and/or chase a ball all day long, but he will not bite a human. Refused to engage the helper at the local Schutzhund club during the year we went there every week - he'd bark a couple of times at the guy, then look at me as if to say "Hey, you're twice his size - YOU go kick his ass!" Then look off at something else.|
He's not scared of anyone, is very outgoing, meets strangers confidently without shying away, and barks at anyone passing by. Comes from sire lines that would suggest some likelihood that he could do bitework, and comes from sheepherding mother lines that do manifest in his fairly high activity level in the yard.
But he won't bite. And that's that - Jeff would call him a shit dog, and from Jeff's perspective that's exactly what he is. I don't have the same requirements as Jeff, so I'm perfectly happy with him. But I would never show him or breed him, as I recognize that he doesn't have what it takes to be bred. Excellent gait, nice structure, the dog can jump over a four-foot fence with ease, great endurance, loves little kids, the deepest black and red coat you ever saw and a true medium size to boot - and it's all gonna die with him, because he is what he is, and what he is doesn't need to be deliberately reproduced.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 23 July 2011 - 11:04
|Looking off is avoidance and a form of fear. LOL He is your pet. You are not breeding him, so he is what he is. I have had dogs that were not breed worthy, and so I did not breed them. Doesn't mean I did not enjoy them. |
When we are discussing this, we are talking about what needs to be improved as far as mentality goes concerning what should be bred. Taking a breed whose main function was to work, and changing it to a dog that is a stuffed toy that is alive is the crap that sends me over the edge. Just get a toy then.
When you look at the video, not is it an embarrassment, but it is not like this was some sort of surprise to these people. They knew going in that the dog would probably run off. Not only that, but they figure the judge will give them another chance or some REALLY embarrassing shit like that. Bad enough the dogs somehow got at least a one, two, or three.... how did that happen ? It is a good example of an entire system that is totally corrupted.
by GSDguy08 on 23 July 2011 - 13:08
|Can anyone tell me why everyone was yelling and cheering (so it sounded) in the first video? The dogs would back down from the helper and everyone cheered!??|
by brynjulf on 23 July 2011 - 15:15
|I have to laugh at Jeff sometimes. He always seems to get pissy then the personal attacks start. He doesnt know me from a hole in the ground but then makes statements like "people like you" . It is hilarious. As I stated this was a very informative and civil thread. He has never seen me train, work a dog or otherwise but I am suddenly a crap trainer because I am sent borderline vicious dogs to train. So funny at least this thread he did attempt to be civil. Jeff I have been training for over 26 years now. I have seen just about everything. My opinions stand. Sorry not backing down just because you dont like it. AND STILL NO ONE HAS BOTHERED TO TELL ME IF THE DOGS ON THE VIDEO PASSED OR FAILED? Why is that??? ( not yelling in caps I just can't figure out why that simple question can not be answered. If you put on a video of crap dogs with horrid temperments at least put on if they failed or not? If they failed the courage test worked. Still waiting.......|
by Sunsilver on 23 July 2011 - 15:27
|Jeff also told me I should put my GSD service dog to sleep because he began peeing in the house when I moved here last year. He told me 'housebroken is housebroken'. I have to laugh, because SOO many of the dogs brought into the boarding kennel here lose their housetraining due to stress and being in a strange environment. I had a standard Schnauzer come in the other day. I put her outside for 10 minutes so she could do her business, then moved her to the cage I'd set up for her. I came back 20 minutes later, and she had pooped AND peed in the middle of her bedding! She did it a second time the next day, then stopped, because I guess she's now feeling at home here, and doesn't need to mark her turf.|
BTW, Ranger no longer pees on my living room furniture.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 23 July 2011 - 15:31
|Personal attack ? Be serious. You are right, I do not know you from a hole in the ground. I know a lot of people that have been training over 20 years. Doesn't make them any good at it. HA HA HA HA I also have a different opinion of "personal attack". If I punch you in the face, it is a personal attack. Making fun of you is not a personal attack. I do not get pissy. I cannot remember one time that I was "pissy" when writing something on a forum. However, borderline vicious is not really the same as what you were saying before, now is it ? : P |
Describe borderline vicious.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 23 July 2011 - 15:36
|Quote: Jeff also told me I should put my GSD service dog to sleep because he began peeing in the house when I moved here last year. He told me 'housebroken is housebroken'.|
Or, it could be one of the dumbest threads ever written on PDB. I don't remember much of it, but I have no idea what possessed you to "share" that with us. Good grief, how do you people survive ? Do you ever go into public, have friends, play sports ? Or are you the one where everyone groans and says, "Oh God, SHE is back." : )
I should start a thread on dog farting, and it's relationship to my opinion of waaaaaa babies. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
by Donald Deluxe on 23 July 2011 - 15:38
|"AND STILL NO ONE HAS BOTHERED TO TELL ME IF THE DOGS ON THE VIDEO PASSED OR FAILED?"|
First dog in the video passed his second chance with a different helper, after the first helper blew the catch and then turned around and clouted the dog with the stick while not engaged (which is what the crowd was reacting to - they were jeering the helper, not cheering). The dogs at 6:00 and 9:00 both received T3 or "insufficient" ratings and were disqualified from the show.
This information can be readily discovered by googling the results of the show and looking up the dog's number (worn by the handler).
by Ibrahim on 23 July 2011 - 15:43
|Thank you Donald for the info|
by Sunsilver on 23 July 2011 - 16:09
|Jeff, and you gave me such GREAT advice in that thread, too!|
"Just shove his nose in it, and beat the crap out of him'!
You may say you don't get pissy, but you sure talk the piss sometimes!
by Jacko on 23 July 2011 - 17:02
Thanks for the "rest of the story" because the goal of the thread is to lead one to assume those dogs passed One who breeds untitled dogs, must discredit the institution that sets and monitors the system.
This thread has been a "nice" thread but the attempted message is still the same.
by Donald Deluxe on 23 July 2011 - 17:08
|Well, maybe they didn't pass the courage test at the Sieger Show, but their performance there still begs the question of how they previously managed to earn Schutzhund III titles and pass Koer evaluations.|
by Ruger1 on 23 July 2011 - 17:08
Donald...Thank you for informative post and for responding to the question about the dogs in the video....I will need to spend some time re reading through it again when I get home...: )
Did you guys watch that cute little Dutchie video ???....You don't think that type of dog would be too much for me, do you ????.....lol...
by Red Sable on 23 July 2011 - 17:43
and thank you Donald (and Kelly) for seeing these dogs as German Shepherds and not making excuses for them because they are show lines.
by sidhimelkel on 23 July 2011 - 19:10
|This again..really guys? The forums go through this same fight at least once every few months. If the WL people have problems with the SL dogs, so be it. And vice versa. Time and time again, people destroy the threads through directing passion unto their reply. How about instead of directing passion through replies, you direct your passion into your dogs - the WL people show the SL people what they are missing out on the field. No one is going to be changing their minds anytime soon through an argument. We're in this sport because similar to our dogs, we feel this insatiable need to protect what is ours (whether it be SL or WL). We're all mule headed and have our minds made up for the most part (unless something traumatic - SL dog performing to WL standards - were to occur). The argument on this thread is genuinely pointless..|
by Donald Deluxe on 23 July 2011 - 20:09
|"The argument on this thread is genuinely pointless.."|
Maybe to you, but I doubt Ruger1 would characterize it that way.
by sidhimelkel on 23 July 2011 - 20:13
|I think every person can speak for themselves, Donald. You need not do it for them. If Ruger1 believes otherwise, they can say so.|