German Shepherd Dog > Switching to raw (25 replies)
Switching to raw
by zobelhund on 02 June 2011 - 00:34
|Ok, I need your help. People who feed raw have you ever heard of a dog getting diarrhea (and I mean liquid) from eating RMB?|
I have a 14 month old male who just cant seem to make the switch. All my dogs are on raw and I've never had such a problem. I've tried everything I can think of. He currently eats Orijen and homecooked diet.
I tried switching him over cold turkey. This didnt work as he got diarrhea. I tried sticking to one protein at first, this didnt work. So I tried sticking to one protein of different proteins thinking maybe he was allergic... this didnt work.
So I tried yogurt, pumpkin, and he ALWAYS gets probiotics (primal defense). He has been to the vet and has a clean bill of health. Negative fecal, fecal sent out, bloodwork, etc.
Now this is the weird part, He CAN tolerate just meat. Say turkey chunks, ground rabbit plain, etc. When I add bone (turkey drumstick, chicken leg quarter, chicken back, etc) he just explosive diarrhea. I can't seem to figure out what the issue is? I have also tried pre-made raw, that doesnt work either. Not to mention expensive.. lol.
I havent tried raw in about 3 months with him. I was giving him time to recover completely from raw trying and get some advice.
Can anyone offer some advice?
by isachev on 02 June 2011 - 01:44
|That is strange, sounds like you have covered all your bases. I have no idea but will be curious to see what others say. I have 4 on all raw with no problems. Take that back, my one 7 month old female gets the runs after a beef heart, her sister has no problems with it. Strange. Good Luck|
by uvw on 02 June 2011 - 02:43
|sorry to go into gross details here...|
if your dog has liquid poo first, and then some semi-formed poo at the end, i would say you're probably feeding too much at one time. or too much bone at one time. the liquid poo at this time means "hey, too much, system overload!"
if however your dog has liquid poo, and nothing but liquid poo, i would say that there is too much fat or fat/cartilage on the bone for him to digest. or that he has not built up a tolerance to it yet.
if you don't mind going into detail (i know it can be a pain in the butt), does he have diarrhea after ground bone or whole bones? also, how much are you feeding him per meal with bone, when he has diarrhea? and what brands of premade raw have you tried?
does he get diarrhea after eating any other specific type of boneless meat?
by Paul Garrison on 02 June 2011 - 03:22
|I am interested in what you all feed and how. At the time i am feeding 1-1 1/2 lbs of raw beef 1 egg and 1 to 2 cups of diamond dog food to each dog. i want to improve but I am not going to the farmers market twice a week to do it.|
by myret on 02 June 2011 - 08:16
|one of my dog's belly had difficulty in adjusting its internal system for raw food it took about 3 months time with often diarrhea.|
there are several ways to start dogs on raw either a quick step , or 3-step system, or the methods are best suited for dogs where
by myret on 02 June 2011 - 08:20
|I have fed raw for about 6 -7 years but started with a new method which is based on how a predator gastrointestinal system is structured and work best|
they are now being fed 3 times a week sometimes only 2 times a week, which function much better than to feed 6 times a
by zobelhund on 02 June 2011 - 10:23
I've switched every other dog over "cold turkey" no problem.
I do not mind getting "dirty". HAHA. We are talking about my dogs bowel movements. yikes!
Anyways, I originally switched over using turkey chunks, plain chunks of meat. He did fine for 2 feedings. I was giving 3 feedings at the time because he was about 6 months. Then I added 2 chicken back the 3 feeding. He didnt chew them up well as he was just learning. So the next day he had diarrhea. I assumed from the backs.
I gave all the extra pumpkin, etc. (oh, I had been giving probiotics since he was a pup, I always have my dogs on a probiotic) His diarrhea cleared up in a few days so I tried again.
This time I gave chicken leg quarter, just one. Then kibble for mid day feeding. Then he had diarrhea again. Chicken leg quarters do not have a ton of fat on them. So I was getting confused.
So I tried JUST giving him meat with his kibble. This works. I can give just ground beef, or turkey chunks, or whatever raw as long as no bone. No diarrhea.
When he gets diarrhea it stays runny for at least 2 days but the first few times he had diarrhea he couldnt hold it. So I don't like to wait it out and see how much longer until normal poops. So I shove pumpkin down his throat and it works.
Also pre-ground bone I have tried only in the mixes. The pre-made mixes I used were Primal and G&C.
I hope I answered everyones questions.
I'll be back on this evening to discuss more.
Thanks everything, I'd really like to get this boy on raw!
by LadyFrost on 02 June 2011 - 12:50
If he was 6 months when you tried first time, 3 months of growing up make a world of a difference..he is more developed now, his system should be in better shape...Also, just a suggestion if he has hard time digesting, try giving him digestive enzymes, it will help him to break down his food especially if he does not chew it well, also with this heat try giving him frozen raw meat it will slow him down...also, most people say give them 24 hours of no food prior to switching to raw...
by myret on 02 June 2011 - 13:55
kibble and raw food is not the best and blend together as the pancreas must produce some different kinds of enzymes, depending on what food the dog gets whether it is raw food or dry food. I know that many dogs are doing just fine on a plane with both raw food and dry food but not al
by myret on 02 June 2011 - 13:56
|why give the dogs kibble I just don't understand why people want to put this stuff in their dogs|
by Paul Garrison on 02 June 2011 - 14:18
I am giving some kibble because just beef and eggs are not enough. I am feeding 18 dogs and want to learn what all I need to give them in a time frame I can handle.
by myret on 02 June 2011 - 18:41
yes I understand that is not much variation
by uvw on 02 June 2011 - 20:48
|zobelhund, if you are only giving him 2 days on raw and then switching back to kibble because of the diarrhea, that may be part of the problem. some dogs take 1-2 weeks to adjust well, and some take 3-6 weeks. that extra time may be what he needs for his body to make the adjustment, so the flip flopping (if that's what's going on) may be PART of the problem. |
he could be having diarrhea from:
- the skin on the chicken legs
- the liver and other organ bits left in the chicken backs
or it could just be something strange...it happens.
how long do you try him on raw before switching back to kibble or home cooking?
also, have you ever tried chicken necks or skinless bone-in chicken breast?
paul garrison, feeding raw is much simpler than you may think but beef and eggs is a great start. the most common way to feed is 80/10/10...which means 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs (of that organ amount, half is liver). and you can vary from those numbers, they are just a guide. for example, instead of feeding kibble (if you want to go 100% raw), you can feed chicken or turkey necks, and some organs. cases of poultry usually come in 40 lbs, so you can feed all your dogs about 2 meals with one case. and necks are fairly inexpensive, usually cheaper than kibble. cost, etc, also depends on how much space you have to store food, and what kind of resources you have in your area. hope this helps. please let me know if you have any other questions or need any help.
by zobelhund on 03 June 2011 - 01:07
|My posts I think are getting a bit confusing.|
My boy whom is now 14 months hasnt had raw (switched over, just pieces here and there) for about 3 months. When I FIRST started to switch him over around 6 months he got the diarrhea badly.. and its been happening ever since.
LAST time I tried to switch him over he was bout 11 month-12 months. He got diarrhea which lasted a little over a week. We ended getting flagyl for him because it was lasting longer than I'd hoped.
We havent even began to add in organ as like I said, Never made the complete switch over yet.
We've been feeding kibble with some raw/homecooked food for about 6 months now. He does great on it. So I disagree a bit about raw/kibble feeding.
I have tried plain chicken breast skinless he does great on it. Its just when I try to add any bone... turkey necks, backs, leg quarters, rib bones, etc.
by uvw on 03 June 2011 - 02:39
|thank you for the clarification. yes, that is really strange. i'm sorry i can't offer anything helpful :(|
i do have a question though...you said clean bill of health including bloodwork. was his phosphorus high at all? or was it pretty much in the middle of the range?
good luck with your dog. maybe the next time around will be a smoother transition. please keep us updated. i would like to know how everything works out for you guys.
by Paul Garrison on 04 June 2011 - 04:59
Liver is real high in iron and too much iron can cause to dog to run hot. Some of my dogs run a lot and in the summer a overheated dog can die pretty quick. What is you opinion on this?
Any suggestions on where to look for chicken necks and cheap parts. We have no chicken processors around here. I use beef because it is cheap or free. (downers) Thank you for your help.
by Paul Garrison on 04 June 2011 - 05:01
|Any ideas on how to grind beef bones?|
by martinusta1980 on 04 June 2011 - 15:40
|uvw " if your dog has liquid poo first, and then some semi-formed stool..." What happens when its the other way around? Firm stools then semi, then creamy, and finally all the way runny ( sorry for being so graphic) I remember my dog doing this when he was in kibble.|
by zobelhund on 04 June 2011 - 15:44
|All levels were within normal limits on bloodwork. This boy has everyone stumped. I was thinking about taking him to a holistic raw studied knowledgable vet. Maybe he can be some help?|
I use a grinder for bone. I bought it from amazon. The company guarantee it will grind bones made for barf feeders. It works WONDERS, but it is VERY loud. SX force is the brand. I paid $130 for it!!!
by uvw on 06 June 2011 - 02:09
|paul garrison, if you're going by the 80/10/10 "rule of thumb", the dog would be getting a fairly small amount of liver. in my opinion, not enough to have any effect on overheating a dog. even feeding a larger amount of liver, i have personallly never had any issues with overheating. if you are worried about that, you can always feed the liver in small amounts nightly rather than during the morning/day or 2-3 times per week. whatever works best for you and your dogs in that respect. also, where are you located? and why are you looking to grind beef bones?|
martinusta1980, it could be the other way around as well, i was just giving an example. however, i can't give you an honest answer about this happening while on kibble because it's such a big difference. it could be just about anything....the dog could have picked something up or eaten something that he normally doesn't, the kibble could have gone rancid, it could have been too much kibble, or just a strange upset tummy. there are too many variables when feeding kibble (and i'm not just saying that to start a fight on here or anything). when you feed just meat, organs, and bones, you know what poop is supposed to look like because there are no fillers, and you know exactly when something is wrong with your dog because you're aware of what the previous meal was. poop comes out black; too much organs. chalky; too much bone. etc....
zobelhund, yes, definitely a holistic, raw-knowledgable vet could offer some advice! but just like bad conventional vets, there are also bad holistic vets. just make sure you do some research before wasting more money on someone who will tell you, "hmmm, yeah, i'm not sure, but we could try my own name brand diets that are only $7/lb."