German Shepherd Dog > PTSD, (20 replies)
by desert dog on 23 May 2011 - 20:00
by JWALKER on 23 May 2011 - 20:26
|what about it?|
by desert dog on 23 May 2011 - 21:30
|I'M sorry, I hit the wrong button on the keyboard. My question is do you think ptsd, and several topics lately have to do with nervous conditions in dogs. Would the causes be environmental, or genetic. I'd like to here some opinions.|
by ronin on 23 May 2011 - 22:17
Not sure this is the right title, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and what context are you refering too; abused dogs or dogs that experienced trauma during service.
I have seen quite a bit of this in people through my work it can be sudden through a nasty incident, pro longed i.e. a detective working for 5yrs dealing with paedophiles and their victims, even guilt where officers swapped shifts and something terrible happened(near miss).
I don't see this in people as being a genetic weakness but different things affect different people differently, often regarded as the body's normal reaction to abnormal experiences and treated as an injury despite the social stigma.
I am curious what's your experience with GSDs, and how it was diagnosed, what examples you have, how was it treated.
by desert dog on 23 May 2011 - 23:04
My question is not intended to be a indictment or criticism. Just that there seems to be alot of discussion about problems due to stress or nervous conditions.
I am just curious what some may feel could be a reason. My question is for information only, as
without discussion on cause, how can there be correction, or can there be correction?
My experience is I had my first GSD in 1957 and have had them ever since except for short periods of time. And I've never personally had a case like these.
I realize people and dogs both have variable threshholds while dealing with stress, while we would not test a human to see if he or she had a threshold high enough to hold up under the conditions of living life itself, dogs are evaluated for nerve, or should be before being placed into service.
by ggturner on 23 May 2011 - 23:22
Did you or your dogs ever experience war or some other stressful event?
by ggturner on 23 May 2011 - 23:34
|The reason I'm asking is because I experienced a very traumatic event (witnessed one of my students struck and killed by a bolt of lightning outside of my school; he died at my feet) about 4 years ago and though I don't suffer from PTSD, I can certainly understand how soldiers who are exposed to traumatic events suffer from it. No one, unless they have experienced such a traumatic event, can understand this. The same is true with service dogs.|
by desert dog on 23 May 2011 - 23:52
|All my dogs go for some form of protection. I pressure my dogs probably as much or more than any one I know. But listen you guys have been questioning my motive for my question. It is not about me or my dogs. It is simply request for information ONLY. I have not one thing forsale. If it is becoming a problem because I hear alot more about it than in the past, What is the cause, and what can be the solution, That is all. I would think any dog owner would be concerned to find out is this a nerve problem in our breeding programs, Is it in our evaluation of dogs being placed, Or could it be due to training , or is it stresses are being put on our dogs that have not been experienced before. Someone mentioned he could not believe dogs are stressed any more than they were in the campaigns in the pacific in WW2. Since I was not there I don't know but would like to hear not a bunch of bickering, but some discussion on this problem to see if it is something that can be helped, or do we just ignore it and hope it goes away.|
by desert dog on 24 May 2011 - 00:26
|Yes Mr. Turner like many I have held many young people, while they were dying. I have talked to many young kids, knowing the decision they were about to make would be the end of there life. Knew a beautifull teanage girl that went to the emergency room because her pretty face had been cut all to pieces with broken bottles, but refused help because her being a minor they would have to notify her parents. Many more, I know your grief for such things. That is my concern also about our dogs. My hope is both people and dogs can be helped. If we don't try to understand why it is happening, we will never be able to help, that is all.|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 24 May 2011 - 01:23
|I think I know where you are coming from, I have read about dogs that have this. I don't think without seeing the dog and the handler while on active duty, that one could really know what was going on. |
Going on what I have been told about MWD from the past, is that they either had problems in the beginning and were washed, or worse, or they went about their duty without a bunch of real problems.
Unfortunately was it the dog, or was it the handler that caused the problem ? No one can answer unless they were actually working with both overseas.
by ggturner on 24 May 2011 - 11:07
|Just want to clarify--I'm a "Mrs." not a "Mr."|
by LadyFrost on 24 May 2011 - 12:40
|ggturner...LOL...take it as a compliment..LOL|
by ggturner on 24 May 2011 - 14:15
|"Someone mentioned he could not believe dogs are stressed any more than they were in the campaigns in the pacific in WW2. "|
PTSD was not diagnosed until 1980. Certainly people have always suffered from it, but it wasn't until 1980 that experts began using the diagnosis:
"PTSD is a relatively new diagnostic category in the history of psychology. The diagnosis of PTSD first appeared in 1980 in the internationally accepted authority on PTSD, the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychological Association), 3rd Edition (APA 1980). At that time the DSM had a limited view of what could cause PTSD, defining it as developing from an experience that anyone would find traumatic, leaving no room for individual perception or experience of an event. This definition was expanded when the DSM III was revised in 1987, and the DSM IV (APA 1994) provides even broader criteria." PTSD is a relatively new diagnostic category in the history of psychology. The diagnosis of PTSD first appeared in 1980 in the internationally accepted authority on PTSD, the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychological Association), 3rd Edition (APA 1980). At that time the DSM had a limited view of what could cause PTSD, defining it as developing from an experience that anyone would find traumatic, leaving no room for individual perception or experience of an event. This definition was expanded when the DSM III was revised in 1987, and the DSM IV (APA 1994) provides even broader criteria." http://www.healing-arts.org/tir/n-r-rothschild.htm
So, in WW II, the diagnosis of PTSD was not used. In those days (according to my parents), things were often "swept under the rug." So, while soldiers, and war dogs, certainly suffered from PTSD, the military did not acknowledge the problem or provide any treatment for it.
by realmccoy on 24 May 2011 - 14:44
|someone really close to me is an Iraq and Afganistan vet, witnessed quite a few things during their multiple deployements. They have been diagnosed with PTSD. Their german shepherds definately have a positive affect on this condition.|
There are service dogs/PTSD alert dogs that the dept of Veterans Affairs has training programs for, and even pays/reemburses Veterans for.
I was also told a story that someone witnessed- A person with PTSD was having an "episode" his dog came up to him as the dog sensed this coming on, and started licking his hand. He pet and held the dog, and was feeling relief of some sort.
Not sure how it works exactly, but if I myself am feeling in a bad mood or upset about something my dogs come lay next to me and I feel a little better. I'm not the only one that has experianced this either :-)
by desert dog on 24 May 2011 - 15:14
|Good probability Mrs. Turner, and I apoligize for calling you a Mr., that detection could be one of the reasons we hear more about it. I know that I use to see alot of WW2 vets that had alot of issues that were swept under the table,education has helped alot when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. I know alot of Vietnam vets that came home that needed help, but found very little.|
As far as dogs at that time they were throw aways when we left. Only to be remembered by those soldiers that loved and respected their contribution as fellow soldiers. Documentarys have brought to light the important roles they played in the war effort. Since then things have changed for the better. Finally they are being recognized for their efforts. Maybe because of the availability of information is one of the main causes for the increased numbers.
by realmccoy on 24 May 2011 - 15:20
|Also, veteran dogs that served in Iraq or Afganistan that are retired after having 1 confirmed kill are available for adoption.|
They often go to good homes. I used to know of a website that would show pics and adoption informnation on them too. I'll post it on here if I find it.
by sable59 on 24 May 2011 - 15:26
|desertdog, i know what you are trying to get across to people. he is not in any way talking about people.|
hank, i think every dog has a breaking point. i saw a lot of service dogs in nam. they had every type of dog under the sun over there. saw more down south on my first tour than i did at dang ha up north.
i personally think it has nothing to do with genetics,handler or training.hell with the gunfire and mortars etc. it will crack the best dogs in the world.
mike diehl took one of my pups to fort Bragg where they were training dogs for overseas deployment. he was there to assist the handlers on training their dogs for deployment. my pup was lucky to be there as he herd grenades,mortar and lots of gunfire. i felt in writing this that mike needed some recognition for this free work.
by ggturner on 24 May 2011 - 15:44
|Desertdog, no need to apologize for calling me a "Mr.!" I hope things have changed for the better for our military soldiers and their dogs. |
Sable, my husband was stationed at Ft. Bragg when I first met him (82nd Airborne). Thank you for your service to our country!
Real, I would love to see that website. In a post on another thread, I mentioned that there is a military vet and his wife that live in my area that have a farm and they provide a place for war dogs to retire (if they aren't adoptable or until they can be adopted).
by realmccoy on 24 May 2011 - 20:01
|Found a few websites|
by desert dog on 24 May 2011 - 21:44
|Thanks guys, and yes Mike should be recognized for his in my opinion expertise in helping in that way. These are the kind of responses I was hoping for. Hopefully we will get more .|