German Shepherd Dog > In Future Pedigrees - Who will be the Top Dog We Will Be Debating - WL (115 replies)
by steve1 on 27 April 2011 - 06:11
Elute is much sought after over here as is Javier, not biased because i have his daughter.
In Belgium the Tom Line is possibly the main one at the moment, probably a little young in time yet to really say but dogs like Ares, Bomber and his father plus many others coming down from Tom, Of course there are many great up and coming dogs but i guess we all have a slight preference for one
by Jyl on 27 April 2011 - 08:20
|This is a very interesting and informative thread... thanks YogiBear for starting this.|
I like Javir and JimBean also. Another dog I like is Wotan vom Barenfang. A female that i like to see in a pedigree is Haska von Karthago. I like so far most of what she has produced.
by Tarakiwa on 27 April 2011 - 09:20
|Caro van Brandevoort (KNPV) is a dog that impresses me greatly. He was the only GSD in the KNPV Champion of Champions and he ticks all the boxes!! He has been having 100% in his PH1 tests and will be going for his PH1 now in June…so if he gets 100% it would be amazing. He just got his UV (20k) and is also going for his Kkl-1…..he is a dog for the future for sure.|
His father is one of the best stud dogs in Europe, Jucan von Peroh SchH3 (BSP) and his mother is Ouchie van der Schiffslache KNPV Ph1 & Ph2 who is from another top well known stud Tyson von der Schiffslache SchH3 (3xBSP) and Yoschy von der Dollenwiese (BSP & V-LGA) SCHH3.
My bitch Bartje van Brandevoort (KNPV PH1 421) should also be mated to him in June – she also comes from some amazing dogs and bitches. Bartje’s mother is Gipsy von der Schiffslache (KNPV Ph1 met lof). Gipsy was a hard bitch, and in her first national PH1 trial she gained 440 (max points). Gipsy is bred over the hard Crok Erlenbush SchH3, FH - Yesko von Karthago SchH3, Ipo3, FH and Yoschy Doellenwiese SchH3 (line breeding 4-4) lines.
Bartje’s father was at one time known as the best German shepherd within the KNPV: Ibor von Blitse Dune KNPV Ph1/Ph2 Obj 354.
Other dogs which impress me:
V Lubeck von der Mahler-Meister(KNPV Ph 1 432 met lof Kkl 1)
Leon von der Staatsmacht (SchH3, Kkl 1)
Basco Teufelskehle (Sch3 Kkl2) The best son of BSP Tyson Schiffslache!!!! Both Tyson and Basco were owned by the world renowned trainer Jorg Sauer.
Energy, intensity, dominance and size.
But even though people mention great studs, we should be looking at great bitches ! People should know what bitches has influenced the GSD in the last 20 years…
V Gitta vom Haus Valkenplatz VH3
Xhantippe van Blommerschot VH 3, KNPV PH 1 met Lof
Tess vom Haus Valkenplatz Kkl 2 VH 3, SpH 2, KNPV PH 1
by Tarakiwa on 28 April 2011 - 09:06
|Other bitches that have done their bit for the GSD and the Sch sport.|
V Deika von den Wannaer Höhen SchH3 (SG-BSP) Kkl 2….she has produced 83 progeny…she also produced SG Wespe von den Wannaer Höhen SchH3 Kkl 1, she produced 53 progeny. Both have produced a huge number of BSP dogs and bitches reaching high performance’s for the sport in general.
by YogieBear on 28 April 2011 - 10:58
|Tarakiwa - you do bring up a interesting point. Everyone says that a great female is worth more than her weight in gold.... It would be interesting to see who people thought we would be talking about in twenty years that is female. All we have discussed are the males...............|
by alkster2002 on 28 April 2011 - 11:25
|GSDPACK ...... which Dargo are you talking about give the rest of the name ......... Regards ..................... Greg|
by Bancroft on 28 April 2011 - 12:10
|Tom - legend|
Caro - nice sports dog, a bit small
Juncan - nice defense, I like him
Como - unlikely to produce hard dogs in my opinion, high drives are his strength
Basco - one big tough mother with a hard bite
Ellute - middle of the road
Javir - easily fustrated, can be mistaken for aggression, nevertheless I like him
Belschik line - aggression
Zasko Prielberg - great producer
Leon Staamachst - nice sports dog
Nick/Yoschy - a crowd pleaser
by steve1 on 28 April 2011 - 12:56
Have you seen any children of Como working at all to put the statement you have on here and remember they are very young dogs at best i do not think he has any children at two years old yet, well a few will be two years old next month.
This i would be interesting to know what you have seen and how many of his children working,
In fact have you seen Como working in real life
As for Ellute a great many of his progeny are working at National and world standard. certainly over here in Europe where the dog was born, I guess you will be able to back your statements with visual facts
by Bancroft on 28 April 2011 - 13:11
|Don't get your knickers in a twist my friend. Just my observations. You are free to ignore them.|
by steve1 on 28 April 2011 - 14:37
So because someone asks you a straight forward question you get all defensive and shirty. Nothing twisted with me, but when i read statements like yours i wonder how you came to your conclusions on the two Dogs that is why i asked you,
Well you cannot answer me that is proven, but having seen 4 children of Como working this last few weeks i can tell you that in time you will be made out to be wrong in your judgment of the Dog, but time well tell,
Regards Ellute i see Children working from him during the year and for several years, again your assumption is way off the mark, he will leave his imprint on the breed in the years to come of that i am sure.
Javir your thoughts are not in line with what i have seen and been told. the other dogs you have picked out i do not know about.
However each to his own thoughts but mine is made on visual not hypothetical statements
Have a good Day
by retiredsarge on 28 April 2011 - 15:30
|I don't know how much the webmaster of this site reads these, but it would be interesting if on the BSP and BSZS lists, it would automatically show Sire and Dam. I would also love to see some way to see all the sports scores from around the globe, assuming they all eventually go through the VDH, to be accessible. It would be nice to be able to track the lineage of dogs that consistently perform well. Especially given the number of dogs that have crossed the Atlantic, in both directions.|
There is also almost a singular focus on Schutzhund or IPO. Please correct me if I am wrong, but aren't many of the exercises from early days of Schutzhund that have been removed, still in KNPV or other sports? I think if I could find a "perfect" male, it's back ground would be broader than just Schutzhund scores.
by Jenni78 on 28 April 2011 - 18:40
|Greg, she's talking about Ha Ja Da. It was stated in a few posts after hers.|
by Tarakiwa on 28 April 2011 - 20:59
Ref size, does it really matter?
Basco Teufelskehle is a big awesome dog.... 68cm / 44kg
Jucan von Peroh....63cm / 38kg
Caro van Brandevoort is a awesome KNPV dog...so not just a sports dog!! 67cm / 34kg....but he does fly at the helper like a Mal....so I am glad he is not too heavy ! He loves to have the last word and had the best bite work in the champion of champions and was the only GSD selected !!
Again I love looking at old pictures of the GSD....they do look like malinois, and are not heavy looking like some GSD's of today!
But this is a different thread ref size.....
At the end of the day all the studs mentions have a different stamp on the GSD, depending on what you want and what you need against the traits of your bitch.
Add size and toughness , the likes of Basco
Tyson von der Schiffslache has been a great producer for both Sch and KNPV....awesome dog !
Gringo, Ellute, Zidane, Eros, Como, Tom, Vito, Uno van Stadtfeld all have produced great offspring, but there will be one or two I would not use on my bitch because it would not match my goals.
I am using Caro because my bitch is KNPV PH1 qualified and it suits my needs.
I would also use Basco and Lubeck since they have everything I would want...and will probably use them next year (not at the same time) !
Half of the dogs listed in Bancroft's list is still young, so we should be talking about them in 5-10 years time ! But who your pups get sold too is just as important !! - with my bitch, her first litter was with Lubeck (KNPV in both parents and grand parents)....in June she would mate Caro....maybe Basco next year and another a year after....then retirement ! If all the pups I produce go to poor to average handlers, would there be any point? So to make great dogs you need great trainers/owners.......thats the only reason why we are talking about certain dogs and bitches today.
I am sure the Mohnwiese kennels loved Ronny taking Eros..........
Have a great weekend
by alkster2002 on 28 April 2011 - 23:34
|THX ! Jenni78 .................... because Dargo von der Thuringen Crowned Jewel DDR was a superior sport dog not police type ! TY ! Greg|
by darylehret on 29 April 2011 - 01:38
|Popularity does matter. The answers to this question are not just who are great dogs and great producers, but who's buying the offspring and competing with them.|
by alkster2002 on 29 April 2011 - 02:13
|darylehret .....................I totally agree with you .............. is with the larger percentage of people POPULARITY is the major decision ..... being based on your statement as listed ................... Regards ............ Greg|
by GSDPACK on 30 April 2011 - 18:23
|alkster Dargo Hajada.. not a sport dog,|
by Tarakiwa on 30 April 2011 - 19:29
|I thought I add a few more bitches that have influenced the breed of today.|
The most famous one I am sure is the foundation and breeding in the Tiekerhook kennels.
Anjov vom Tiekerhook had a daughter
Beauty vom Tiekerhook who had a daughter
Esthra v Tiekerhook......
Endi v Tiekerhook.......
Steffi v Tiekerhook, which had a son
Orry von haus Antverpa who had a son who was a also a WUSV champion
Querry v h Antverpa.....
Tom van't Leefdaalhof....
Eros v d Mohnweise....
Como vom Bonuer Weld....
As a mentioned before the Valkenplatz kennels seem to have great bitches building a foundation for their well deserved fame!
I suppose we could go on forever......thanks to Tiekerhook, Karthago, Antverpa, Mohnweise, Schiffslache, Stadtfeld etc......all these world famous kennels had great foundation bitches first. Mate them to great dogs from other great foundation bitches and job done !! Easy !! lol
I wish !
Just need the top 10 trainers in the world to have a pup from me, and people will be talking about my kennels and dogs in 10 years time.....any takers? lol
Have a great day !
by cindy gehring on 08 July 2011 - 17:13
|Hello I am looking for a male pup from Ellute s line. Would you be breeding your female any time soon. . I have always bought from Larry Hudson . But he is 74 and is no longer importing and breeding dogs. I would love a refural if you arent breeding Your female is very beautiful!!Thank you Cindy Gehring email@example.com|
by Bundishep on 10 July 2011 - 19:26
|For studs Tom are doing well like Fero,many many great dogs come out of and More recent Ellute/Eros,the B brothers,though Javir can produce well he can produce poorly also.Dogs bred on Top side of ped with Tom seem to match well with Yoscky bred on bottom end of the ped,throw in a little Pike and you come up with Como the world champ,It will be fun to see if Como can continue the line of GREATS,for Females I,m big fan of the Kathago females because they bring in the Stoppenberger blood she was one producing female that could carry great temperment over and over and over and over,dont even get me started on other great females|