But that's just Jeff. 

I wasn't in the mood this morning to be told to STFU by some idiot I don't even know, in reference to something I wasn't even talking about. That's all.

Have a wonderful day, darling. I get to spend mine trying to get someone's total nervous wreck of a GSD to not lunge so hard at other dogs that he renders his owners bedridden. Both have had back surgery, one as a result of injuries caused by this dog. Toodles!

I use an ax every day.

Don, I have actually had the "tracking" conversation with you before. How about you show us your scorebooks ? How about a video of your training ? After all, hiding behind your "gangster" pseudonym tells me a little of you. I put up all kinds of videos good, bad, ugly. Where are your videos ? After all, you want all this "proof" but where are you at ? 

I hate cowardice. I put my name out there and I voice my opinion which you don't have to agree with, and have said that you do not have enough experience to even have this conversation, but now it is put up your score books Jeff. How about you show us your dogs your training, and lets see how good you are. Lets see if you have any guts. LOL

I love the little girls that hide behind their fake names.  Tough guys on their computers.

Sue, Buko is not like Joker at all. LOL I have never seen the dog but have heard much about his personality. Buko is a lot stronger dog. He is not afraid of gates and whatever else Joker had problems with. Buko is not afraid of shit. Brittany did an amazing job with that dog. No one should ever forget that.

If you have a GSD that you think can measure up, then you are sadly mistaken. Hell, you could just go watch Bogan. Man, that dog is fun to watch. 

So the offer still stands. You guys can come out and train, I don't have any sissy hard sleeves, so if you are going to take a bite, you are going to feel it. Esko bites nice and hard, I guarantee you are going to feel it. I will work your dogs as well, see how they compare. Always good to see new people and new dogs.

Oh Jeff, now you're just being silly.  You should know better than to believe rumors about dogs you have never seen.  Not only did Joker win everything in the states, he placed 5th in the World Championships.  I realize you don't like schutzhund, but to everyone else in the world, this is a pretty nice accomplishment.  You have a MRII on Buko.   As far as who trained Joker, I'm not going there with you either because that has nothing to do with this conversation.  Also I didn't say MY dog was on a par, I said there are dogs in the training group I am with that are on a  par.

Listen, I hoped this thread was going to be a serious conversation about your breeding program and what you felt should be done to improve the breed.  I was really looking forward to hearing what you had to say.  Instead this has turned into just another immature and  stupid pissing contest.  

 Someone please let me know if this thread takes a turn for the better because I think it could be quite informative, but if it stays in the gutter, don't bother.

Quote: 

I don't look like an ass, you look like a sissy for wanting proof, and not ever having shown anything that you have done. Kinda sucks doesn't it ? You can make fun and act like you know what it is you are talking about, but hide behind a fake name and never show us your training. 

That, little gangster wannabee is the definition of armchair quarterbacking. You want to run your mouth and tell me I know shit, but there you are in mom's basement, ya know ? Who the hell are you to even speak to me ? Are you starting to get my drift ? All my training good and bad is out there for little hideaways like you to look at and talk shit about. Where is anything you have done ? Better hope the sue the moderator saves you. 

Quote: I see this conversation is going no where fast.

It is not up to you where this conversation goes. You think you see GSD's on par with Buko, I call bullshit. Hows that for not going the way you want. You think I know nothing about dogs. I remember lighting you up like a Christmas tree when you thought you could fix a dutch shepherds aggression problem with food. That was you, right ?  You had the entire board telling you that you had no idea what you were talking about. Some of us work dogs that will eat your lunch for you. Most here work dogs that they claim are so real, but then the decoy drops the sleeve and the dog runs off with his prize. I am one of those that know the difference. 

When someone like you asks me about my breeding goals, what the heck am I supposed to say ? What are the odds you would even know what I was talking about ? In a few years, my breeding goals will be on the trial field.

If Mondio was more readily available than maybe we'd all know which 1 was better. Then again, It's about the training process. I've owned both breeds and they both come with thier good and bad. By the way, plenty of GS can do Ring.

Quote: By the way, plenty of GS can do Ring.

Name some. "Can" vs "Did" is different. If there really are plenty, which would be cool, please point them out to me. And not ring one dogs. I don't give a shit about ring one. : ) Ring three in this country, preferably currently and not ten or more years ago. That info would be valuable to me.

WOW what the hell are you talking about?  What conversation regarding a Dutch Shepherd?  Hate to break it to you but  either it wasn't memorable or it wasn't me.  Provide a link, please. 

As far as your breeding program, you don't want to talk about it, that's fine.  BUT do you really prefer  this childish back and forth pissing contest?  Just understand I was trying to have a normal conversation with you and in no way did I insult you or your dog, and I'm not going to start.

Glad you love your dog, Jeff.  Have a good day.

Here's the part where, again,  I insert the silly thought that some people have very good reasons for not using real names and/or posting videos. You know, like people whose real lives are actually more interesting than their forum lives. If those people are not the ones making outlandish claims and having delusions of grandeur, I don't see where it's fair to attack them.

None of my business, but I don't recall Sue ever saying anything about any Dutchie. 

I will say that I totally agree w/Jeff's statement regarding "real" dogs who then run away w/their prize. Sure, some of that is what has been trained into them, but there is a difference and I agree that you need to be able to tell a "real" dog who has been trained to carry the sleeve, and an imposter. 

I don't think these training differences/preferences have anything to do with the dogs themselves, so to argue whose dog is tougher than whose in an argument about sports really seems futile, pointless, and just plain silly. 

I think Sue's questions about Jeff's breeding goals were valid and I had the same question, but it, too, was ignored. 

I'm with you Jenni, I just think it's pretty funny how freakin defensive and angry some people are getting,   and over what, I'm not even sure!!!!!

ok Jeff - if Don hasn't accomplished anything and therefore can't ask you for accountability for what YOU have done, then I should be able to.  So where is your scorebook for all of your many Schh titles you earned with dogs you have trained?  For that matter, where are the scores/results from all of the trials you have competed in, in any dog sport?

I sure hope I don't have to scan all 3 of the completely FULL scorebooks belonging to Eagle, the dog I bred, raised, trained and titled myself to 25X Schh3, Fh2, many-times FH including FH Champion at a National event, member of the FCI World Team.....  not to mention the several other scorebooks full of club, Regional and National event stamps from the several other dogs I trained myself....

And oh let's not forget the USA bronze, silver, gold and Master's Gold medals I earned with dogs I've trained and titled....

Nah, that would be a whole lot to read on this forum.   So where is proof you can train a dog Jeff?  Proof is in the titles, if you are in a dog sport.

Don, are you saying that's not your real name? I feel so betrayed.

And you would be right my darling Don Corleone !!  You still know  I am madly in love with you AND I wasn't referring to you in my last post, right?  By the way does anyone know who is the "gangsta wannabe" and who lives in their mothers basement?  This particular pissing contest is difficult to keep up with.

So molly, you raised and trained eagle yourself ? All by yourself ? I watched a video of you working some dog and the whole time there is a guy telling you what to do and when to do it. So, where is the dog that you have trained ? LOL

I thought my goals were made pretty clear jenni from my "sport bred" (good grief you crack me up with that shit) dogs. I want to see those things I pointed out become consistant without losing anything else. I think that is enough for right now. Sorry if that doesn't seem to be enough for you and sue, and it might be something very easy to change. "MIGHT" be. Like I said, we will see in a few years. WTF am I supposed to be able to figure out from 11 week old pups as far as what I am producing at this point ? At least jenni has an excuse, she doesn't feel the need to actually read what people write. LOL

Don, I still challenge you to start a club and train your dog for MR3. You say there is nothing near you. Well welcome to my world. I have trained my decoys using my green dog (Buko) and lost them about every 4 to 6 months. If you insist on catching him on the arm, then you bleed. So it is not easy to keep people and it is even harder to train them to target the dog properly. 

You can say I am a crappy trainer, but really, who are you ? Where is your dog ? Kinda hard to take your opinions about anything seriously considering the lack of video showing your work. My guess is that you are probably someone who wants to hide who they are because this way you can have a contrary opinion and it doesn't come back to haunt you. I just said fuck it and trained everybody to the best of my knowledge and had a lot of people talk shit when they were NOT the ones training their dog (like molly) they had decoys and training directors and had a support system. That would be great if I wanted to do everything the way that THEY want to do it, but I do not. The club I started doing Mondio in has never produced a ring three, or a ring two. So I did my own thing and moved on.

So when you tell me that you have nothing around you, I am telling you that it has been that way for me as well. I do not train the way Mike Ellis does, and for some reason that bothers people. The one person that it doesn't bother is Mike. : )  Buko is a handful. If you, or molly think you can control him, I would be more than glad to stop by and train and you can tell me what I am doing wrong. He has been my experiment since almost day one. LOL

Sue, wrong person. 

molly, you never trained a dog by yourself in your life. Don't lie and tell stories to make yourself feel better. I am not going to be able to name that puppy eagle, as he isn't  sleeve sucking, and has some fight to him. 25x crap doesn't mean much to me.