German Shepherd Dog > Hip dysplasia (12 replies)
by JLB82 on 19 March 2011 - 03:39
|I have been reading and checking out all these hip xray photos. It just amazes me. Out of the Seven "crappy bred" German shepherds I have owned, I have never had one that had hip dysplasia or any health problems at all. I don't think I have even seen one with hip problems in person and I have seen a lot of "poorly bred GSD". Maybe the white German shepherd I seen yesterday. Something was quite strange with her gate and she look healthy from her ribs to her head, but her hips looked as if she was malnourished ( meaning over sized for the dog and very bony). I know she wasn't malnourished. How could only half of a dog be malnourished, right? Well that is how she looked. Does hip dysplasia come from too much line breeding from these highly expensive GSD's?|
I don't mean to step on any one's toes. I'm just curious and figured most of you guys and gals are the experts.
I'm also really curious why some people seek imported GSD's as well?
by mirasmom on 19 March 2011 - 12:59
|Did you ever x-ray the hips of all the GSD's you have owned, the reason I say this is because a dogs hips can be bad and the dog may never show any signs of HD.|
This is a very interesting topic, glad you brought it up.
by beetree on 19 March 2011 - 13:30
|Didn't you mention not all of your seven dogs have remained with you until old age, isn't that correct? If not, then so sorry for getting it wrong.|
What you are noticing in the white shepherd is probably related to a muscle atrophy issue, and not malnourishment, because rightly concluded, you don't malnourish in halves. IMHO
by JLB82 on 19 March 2011 - 13:38
|The first four I didn't xray. I was young and my parents would barely allow me to spend money on my dogs and I didn't know much about german shepherds at all. Baily, Tagan, and Keizer(i lost him or he was stolen) were all xrayed and they all look good. Tagan's father has a lot of line breeding from Germany and I was worried about him because he grew so quickly and seemed to be in pain when he was about 8 months old. I took him to the vet and asked her to check out his hips. He was fine, she told me I needed to get him off the puppy food. I took him off the puppy food and that seemed to solve all problems. |
Speaking of that I never did put his hip ratings on his pedigree. She didn't give me his Xray copies. Or tell me what the exact rating was. I'm new to the GSD pedigree info. Should his hip ratings show up on his AKC papers if I turn them in to the AKC? What should I do with those? We are working on his CGC Title and then moving on to TDI.
I am about to start weaning him from the e-collar after I get his harness in the mail. I hope to have him tested for both with in the next six months if not sooner.
Does anyone know of another title that would easily be complimented by his cgc an tdi title that we could began working on? I don't think he could be a agility dog. He doesn't run very fast. I don't think he would be a good shultz dog either, because he is really not aggressive. Although we have had a stanged episode once and he did attack and chase of a dog that bit my daughter. I just don't think he could ever be an attack dog, nor would I want him to be. What other titles are there?
by JLB82 on 19 March 2011 - 13:45
|Those first three GSD's I had were well into adult hood when I got them. I gave them to my friends and seen them all the time. They contiued to stay healthy.|
by JLB82 on 19 March 2011 - 13:59
|That lady that had the white GSD that I met the other day. She came to me with her dog, because she knew I had gsds and was wanting advice. I had never met her until she showed up on my door step. She takes her to a local vet that absolutely don't like. He works mostly with cows and horses. His vet specifically says large animal veterinarian. He is the only vet where we live. I have heard a lot of his ridiculous advice and that is why I don't like him. I don't know if he purposely tries to detour dogs and cats from his clinic, by charging out ragous prices and giving poor advice or if he just really don't know as much about dogs and cats compared to cows and horses.|
He told her that her dog was fine, just young and over active. He told her not to worry in 6 months she would fill out.
The dog is 18 months old. The lady was wanting to breed her with her ugly male GSD. I can't say a lot. I have done that before my self. I tried to educated her as much as I could about breeding her dog. I let her know that the economy is terrible and she would have a hard time selling the pups. Just check out the news papers with all the gsd ads. Plus she doesn't have a fence, her dogs are chained up. I don't know what she plans on doing with the puppies to keep them to from running off or getting stolen. I told her something does not look right with her dog at all. It isn't healthy. I don't care what her vet told her. Breeding her would cause more problems for her health. I just gave her as many facts as I could. She seemed responsive and concerned about my advice and said she wasn't going to breed her. But we will see. Only time will tell.
by vonissk on 19 March 2011 - 15:32
|To get a hip/elbow rating recognized by the AKC they must be sent in to OFA and your dog must either be chipped or tatooed. It's my underst6anding that the OFA now requires a chip or tatoo--like if you look at the dog's rating after it will be PI which means permanant identified. Once the OFA does the ratings they then send them to AKC.|
by Bundishep on 19 March 2011 - 20:22
|No HD does not come from too much line breeding in fact just the opposite if you line breed on a dog with a low ZW number like say a 69 like the Aly dog or other dogs rated in the low 70s the better chances you are for getting a higher percent of progeny down the line that show great hips.Some lines are known for producing better hips and elbows than others.|
by Niesia on 19 March 2011 - 20:49
I agree with you. Good breeding gives you a better chance for healthy dogs in the future.
And about the “crappy bred” GSDs not having problems – I would disagree. They are simply not reported. Screening breeding stock cost money and only good breeders screen their dogs and publish ‘official’ results.
Puppies from good breeding are expensive and new owners often preliminary X-ray their pups, even as early as 6-9 months to know what to expect as they are usually “guaranteed/warranted”. Nobody bothers to X-ray 6-9 month old pup that they got for free, cheap or from the shelter. They don’t X-ray them later in life either, unless something is obviously and terribly wrong. As it has been already said here, dogs with HD can show hardly any symptoms and to the inexperienced eye HD would go unnoticed. At the same time, owners of those dogs, usually don’t blame the ‘breeder’ or the ‘breeding’ for their dog’s misfortune – usually there is nobody to blame/complain to anyway...
by LadyFrost on 21 March 2011 - 13:43
|JLB82...just as an FYI..not all of us here buy puppies from breeders we choose, I adopted my 1st 2 from shelter...1st female i have was left by a couple who obviously invested into her..she had OB training and not your basic sit and stay, this dog knows left to right, back, heel, etc...anyways..she was 3 when i got her...she looks like she has tattoo but i cant read it i tried with lights, vet looked at it...we can't tell....anyways..my second dog came from shelter also...the last one whose hips were posted was a drop off, someone dropped her off in my front yard when she was about 2-3 months and only weighted 19 pounds....it was my choice to keep her although i did try finding a home for her for almost 3 weeks...|
I am just trying to explain that not all dogs on here are purchased directly from breeders...and since not everyone is posting their x rays the bad ones are the ones that jump out at you...think of it as statistics...if you are doing a survey at Hospital entrance and askiing how many people are sick...90% will say they are sick...does that represent the rest of the population? ..obviously not....so here you go...
by Niesia on 21 March 2011 - 18:04
by HighDesertGSD on 21 March 2011 - 18:49
"I don't mean to step on any one's toes. I'm just curious and figured most of you guys and gals are the experts.
I'm also really curious why some people seek imported GSD's as well?"
HD is both hereditary and developmental.
German dogs have more standardized requirement in hip normalcy for breeding, although SV fast-normal is comparable to Borderline in OFA (so says OFA), which will not confer certification.
My American Showline girls have three generations of OFA Hips and elbow. When I looked for a stud, however, I found that the best, in general, is a stud himself and both parents OFA H&E.
So the pups will have both parents and all four grandparents OFA H&E. Unless HD is truly unusual among hereditary diseases, I’d say if both parents and all four grandparents don’t have it, the chance of a pup having it is low.
Breeders of top American lines only started to embrace OFA H&E about 10-15 years ago, the result is gradual improvement of OFA backgrounds.
Incidents of HD decrease when owners of pups feed them intelligently to avoid too fast growth of the pups.
by HighDesertGSD on 21 March 2011 - 19:20
|"Puppies from good breeding are expensive and new owners often preliminary X-ray their pups, even as early as 6-9 months to know what to expect as they are usually “guaranteed/warranted”."|
I believe it is not the price of the pup but the purpose of owning it that induces an owner to seek OFA certification or to take X-ray at a certain month of age. Invariably it ultimately relates to breeding. Warranty on the pup itself against HD means not much. The most the breeder will do is to let you keep it and help in the cost of surgery, not something that an owner wants to investigate in advance.
Even in Germany X-ray is not needed to own a GSD, so there will be incidents of HD not reported even in Germany.