German Shepherd Dog > What are the chances? (19 replies)
What are the chances?
by JRANSOM on 11 January 2011 - 01:33
by JRANSOM on 11 January 2011 - 01:37
Sorry, hit return before finishing my sentence.
by hodie on 11 January 2011 - 01:43
|There is no definitive data in canines, but in human males, the statistics do show a higher incidence of cancer when a similar condition exists and the testicle is not removed. There are other potential reasons to consider removal. It is a much more difficult surgery than typical neutering. Are you sure the dog is not really monorchid rather than cryptorchid? |
Another argument for removal is that in many instances in humans and animals, irritants, be they retained tissue or a foreign body can lead to cancer.
by gucci on 11 January 2011 - 02:45
|I agree Hodie: but think they need to get their growth before having them removed, and think a lot of Vets just make money off this...At least that is what my Vet told me..."let them grow into themselves" first.. What do you think..?|
by eichenluft on 11 January 2011 - 03:29
|I would wait until the normal age to neuter - I personally recommend waiting until the male dog is fully grown - 18 months to 2 years old at least - before neutering. then I definately recommend neutering a dog with retained testicle(s) - certainly a higher risk of cancer in that testicle (which in dogs can spread rapidly to major organs) though of course it isn't a sure thing that they will develop cancer. It is genetic or so they say (cryptorchidism) and obviously they can still be bred with only one testicle down - so neuter is a good idea for that reason as well. But IMO no need to neuter early.|
by JRANSOM on 11 January 2011 - 03:30
Both testicles were down when I got him. The right one then went up then down then up and stayed up. So, only one down. I didn't plan on neutering him until he was matured. Probably 2.5 yr. He's 22 months now and I plan on getting his BH in the Spring, then his SchH1. Then I planned on neutering him but I've heard different things regarding that. "Don't do it, he'll be fine." "it can cause cancer." I've also read both. Has anybondy been through that? And, if so...what was the outcome?
by Don Corleone on 11 January 2011 - 06:37
|I would try a Shop-vac first! ;)|
by DebiSue on 11 January 2011 - 17:11
|ROFLMAO...Don, Don, Don...|
by SportySchGuy on 11 January 2011 - 17:34
|I used to be on the fence about this but more and more I lean toward not having it removed.|
by JRANSOM on 11 January 2011 - 18:37
Thanks for all the feedback. You too Don.
SSG why would you not have it removed?
by SportySchGuy on 11 January 2011 - 18:46
|Just everything I have read or heard or been told can not prove why it is such a good idea to have it removed. I have not had a dog with this condition before so hopefully I won't have to make that decision anyway. I can't help believe that there are other contributing factors to cancer development besides undecended testicle. If for some reason I was convinced it needed to be removed then I would just remove the one.|
by hodie on 11 January 2011 - 19:23
|One other reason to find this testicle should it not decend is that it can twist inside and be the cause of a serious and possibly life-threatening inflammation. I have seen this in dogs who were cryptorchids several times. |
If the dog is very young, and IF the undecended testicle is otherwise normal on a scan and in the inguinal canal, hormones can be administered to coax the testicle to drop. But I don't know how often this is actually attempted.
by Kaffirdog on 11 January 2011 - 19:39
|Since the testicle has been down, it may be possible to bring it down surgically, best done as soon as possible if you are going to try this. Testicles are not designed to be at internal body temperature so the body may treat it as an intruder if it is left there, but no need to remove the normal testicle. If you are planing on neutering him anyway, then you might as well wait and do both at the same time.|
by JRANSOM on 11 January 2011 - 20:21
|He is almost 2 years old. Too old for it to descend normally. I am going to wait until he's about 2.5 yrs and then will most likely have him neutered. I also thought that if a dog had two testicles but one was retained and one was down then he was a monorchid.??|
by melba on 11 January 2011 - 23:48
|What about having the retained testicle removed while leaving the other alone until you are ready? He will still get the testosterone needed for proper growth from the normal testicle.|
Just a thought.
by hodie on 12 January 2011 - 00:24
|One = MONO as in monorchid. One testicle is there and a second one did not develop.|
Two, meaning one or both did not drop or dropped and one or both ended back up in the abdomen is a cryptorchid. Neither monorchid or cryptorchid should be bred, of course. If you are going to neuter, just do it all at once rather than trying to find the one that is hidden. Finding the one that is hidden can be much more major surgery, depending on where it is. No sense in putting the dog through two surgeries, nor your pocket book.
by JRANSOM on 12 January 2011 - 01:29
|Would an ultrasound be able to find it or some other test like that? Then they wouldn't have to fish all around to look for it, they would know right where to go. Is that something that can help? And no, he is NOT going to be bred.|
by mirasmom on 12 January 2011 - 02:25
|Margaret is right, the testicle will be attacked by the system as an intruder.|
Years ago I had a GSD that had only one testicle, I had the vet give him testosterone shots to make it drop, but that didn't work, I never bred him or intended to, but when the dog was only 7 years old he got cancer from the testicle being retained inside him, it was awful, they opened him up and the cancer was all intertwined within his liver and all his other vital organs, he had to be put to sleep on the operating table, it was the saddest day for me, that dog was part of the family, and very athletic, in great shape, we never got to say good-bye........
If I had the knowledge I have to go by today, I would have neutered him, and he probably would have lived to be 12 or 13, not just 7, that sucked.
by Jenni78 on 12 January 2011 - 14:55
|Cancer is something that starts from within; it's a mutation of cells YOU ALREADY HAVE. When you are prone to cancer, of course the logical sites are going to be things that are not quite natural, whether it be surgical sites (like bone cancer in dogs caused by pins, etc.), vaccination sites (check out the cat tumors from shots- very scary), and yes, possibly a retained testicle. |
However, I have done a lot of research on this and just recently consulted with a naturopathic physician who happens to be a breeder as well and was a vet tech for many many years prior to pursuing her degree in medicine later in life. She really believes that IF a dog is predisposed to get cancer due to various environmental or genetic factors, then it's POSSIBLE that the retained testicle MAY be the site;
HOWEVER, Jransom's dog's testicle is not way up inside his abdominal cavity, un-developed, as she has seen it many times as it went up and then down. This is most likely a normal testicle that for whatever reason, got stuck. It is not the same as the testicle that never descended in terms of risk (incidentally, she doesn't even feel that those are much of a risk in the grand scheme of things).
The way this doctor explained it to me, we have cancer markers all over our bodies. If Jen's dog is marked for testicular cancer, then having it in the body increases the chance that IF he gets it, it MAY spread before detection. Her opinion is to leave them alone, at the very least until the dog is at the age where cancer is more likely (late middle age to senior), and instead concentrate on the dog's whole body health and immune system. Feed the dog the best you can, don't over-vaccinate, don't expose them to known cancer-causing substances, etc....all the same stuff you should do for any dog.
I had a dog like this and I neutered him at 6 years old. I was FURIOUS to find out that it was simply stuck under the skin, there was no invasive surgery needed, and the SOB vet neutered him anyway, despite knowing my concern was that it was inside the abdominal cavity and that I did not want him neutered but thought I had no choice. GRRRR. His response when I demanded to know why he would do it anyway instead of call me and tell me it wasn't what he thought was to say he thought it would improve his attitude some. I LIKED his attitude....but anyway....I was horrified at the results (total loss of muscle, rapid aging) and would never, ever, under any circumstances besides testicular cancer, neuter another dog.
by JRANSOM on 13 January 2011 - 00:51
|Thank you all for your input.|
Hodie thank you for the correction. Yes, I meant Cryptorchid.