German Shepherd Dog > Breeders, show us what you have produced. (247 replies)
by vincentpmchugh on 29 March 2011 - 06:01
Jeff I am wondering a few things. What lines do you use? The dog works very nicely, would like to see some protection work!! How big is he? Looks like a small male to me, but who knows it's hard to tell in Video the lady could be huge!!! LOL Also what lines did your Male come from Bukko i think was his name? A link to his Pedigree would be nice? Also what do you think is the best attribute you bring to the table in your dogs?
by Jeff Oehlsen on 29 March 2011 - 08:22
Buko comes from the "J" litter du loups du soleil and Soda PoP comes from the "U" litter.
Elizabeth is not short, and Jr Mint is not big. He is 16 months old. It is too early to tell what I am bringing to the table with my pups. Years ago I bred Rotts, but Mint was out of my first Mal litter, and now I have a litter of GSD's that are 11 weeks.
There were two pups in the litter of Mals. A boy and a girl. Ash is the girl, and I am not sure if she is being trained.
The GSD litter it is way too early for me to honestly say anything about them. I know that I took some for a walk today and they were biting so I took off running and when they caught me, I lost my pants, and my shoes. I was swatting the shit out of them, and they just keep coming back harder and more determined. I was not being nice and puppies were flying everywhere. That just made it worse. : )
However, I am a realist. I have seen enough pups come out great guns and then fade into nothing by two years of age. I also had 7 females and 3 males. That is a lot of females. I am going to keep a couple and see who looks the best in a year or so.
I like tough dogs. I like hard biters that need almost nothing but the love of the bite to work. I know if I am not careful, I will breed what I want in a dog, and I will not have any homes for them. I like a dog that will work for food, a tug or a pat on the head and a good scrubbing, and all of them work as a reward. I like a dog that has good sense and doesn't look at smaller things as play toys. Or larger things as a definate threat. I like a dog that is loyal to you, maybe a bit too loyal to you. I like a pup that stays with you because they really dig you, not because they are a little insecure.
I have a list of things that is retarded long that I would like to have in a dog. A long list and really very unreasonable. Right now, I would like to get lower thresholds, love of the bite, and strong jumpers. Gotta start somewhere, and that is where I want to start. I also like character in a dog. I have no idea how to put that to words really.
Mint is perfect for Elizabeth. If I could get 50% of my litter matched up to people like this, no matter if they did anything in sport or not I will be happy. He loves her an awful lot and is a really nice dog. He is like his father, very secure with people and things and loves to work. I am hoping he takes after his mother more in the work, as Buko does what he wants, and I pay for it.............. A lot. However I would not trade Buko for any other dog, as he is something special and loves me an awful lot.
Esko is very much the same as far as that goes. I have had enough dogs that would go and work with someone else without hesitation. Buko is not like that, never was, and Esko is not like that. I like Esko enough that even if he didn't work out as a ring dog, I would have him around the house anyway. He is very old school to me, and I like that. He loves to bite, and loves to get scrubbed by me. If I have a toy, great, but if I just scrub him and tell him how good he is, it is the same for him. That is why I bred him. I want to see if he produces that.
We will see in a year or so if I was right. You looking for a pup ?? : )
by Jenni78 on 29 March 2011 - 14:20
Sorry to ruin your day, but........................ you like the same things I like. I'm afraid, Jeff, that you just might like my pups (thus far- oldest ones are almost 2 and have anything but faded into nothingness, LOL). Sense, character, not seeing small things as play toys, fiercely loyal, work as a reward, plus hard biting and all that jazz....all good things that I agree are being overlooked in favor of traits that I think are misinterpreted anyway, most of the time. Kind of like what you were saying about "real" dogs who run around in circles w/their prize. A lot of people seem to be breeding for traits that aren't really what they think they are and then wondering why the pups don't turn out like they planned/hoped.
When you succeed, you will have a hard time finding proper homes. You're absolutely right.
by Red Sable on 29 March 2011 - 17:37
You like what I like too Jeff. All the best in achieving your goals.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 29 March 2011 - 19:05
Quote: Sorry to ruin your day, but........................ you like the same things I like
The odds that what I see and what you see are pretty good that we will still see things differently.
by Jenni78 on 29 March 2011 - 19:31
While I'm sure it makes you feel better to think that, based on what your opinions have been on many dogs, I doubt it. So sorry, dear. But I like how staunchly you insist that you are the only one in the entire world who can accurately read a dog.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 29 March 2011 - 20:24
Quote: But I like how staunchly you insist that you are the only one in the entire world who can accurately read a dog.
You have never done anything to be able to read a dog. Silly girl.
by Working GSDs on 30 March 2011 - 15:31
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 March 2011 - 03:28
|Such the little instigator. LOL|
by Bob McKown on 31 March 2011 - 12:36
Reading a dog is in the eye of the beholder, We all see what we want and we see what we don,t want.
by maywood on 31 March 2011 - 13:26
|ain't that the truth|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 March 2011 - 15:50
|To me it is like admiring women, sometimes the really really hot one looks great at first, but then the whole thing gets ruined because she is dumb, boring, whatever. Then you have the pretty girl that is very interesting and she is much hotter in time than the really hot girl simply because you enjoy everything about her.|
I have worked dogs in the past that enjoyed working, but really had no business in a trial. The over all dog was perfect with children, you could goof with him and never worry about getting bit anywhere that didn't have protection, you could let him knock you down and he would come off the bite and lick your face, you know that kind of dog. All around good dog. Go anywhere dog.
I tend to talk in terms of ideal. What ideally you should strive for. I am never going to know so many of your dogs, as the US is just gigantic. I have a friend who has a showline dog, and had a guy do a home invasion sort of scenario. The dog stood in the door. He fought that guy with every fiber of his being, and afterwards slept for a long long time.
If there was any one thing that I wish that I could get in a pup out of my breedings, just ONE thing, that would be it. Screw getting a title, perfect drives, color, screw everything else really, if I could get that ONE thing everytime I would.
Reading a dog is one of the things that is the hardest thing to actually explain to people. I know I can see thresholds, drive, character, but there is always what you have seen from experience, and that will be different with every person.
When you have seen a dog like this dog work, everything else moves down the ladder a bit.
It HAS to be like that. You cannot (IMO) lessen your breed by saying that is a DS so it is apples to oranges
This dog worked the rest of the trial with a broken rib. I can say he is an orange, but that was a hell of a hit. I want to find out more about this dog, and see if I can add him to my program. Does he pass this, or is this training, and he is a one off ??
Some people whose background is in Sch, and have ONLY DONE sch, might say his bark is all prey. After seeing that hit, and I have been told he hits like that all the time, ( I have no idea if that is true YET) how would you read this dog if he was doing a B&H ?? lol
So, what you see and experience, and how ruthless you are as an evaluator is the difference in how one reads a dog. I am never very "nice" when evaluating a dog, whether it is mine, yours, Mom and Dads, whatever.
One of my faults is that I am not the salesman. Some on here tout their dogs as the next coming of Jesus Christ. I am never going to sound like that, and if I do, you can rest assured that I am making fun of those that do sound like that.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 March 2011 - 17:31
Listen to him Squeek ! ! ! ! Long ago I noticed that dogs that would hurt you very very badly in a suit didn't always have a "proper" bark, and were not "balanced" in prey and defense. Dogs like this are the reason that "balanced drives" means that you never got past square one in evaluating a dog. I want a prey monster, as he is just not afraid of you. I do not want my dog to be afraid in training ever. If the dog shows "balanced" or equal amounts of defense and prey, he is gone. I do not want that dog.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 March 2011 - 17:34
|Here is my gift to the PDB.|
by Chaz Reinhold on 31 March 2011 - 17:46
|Jeff, exactly why more Malis look great in the courage test. Ever see a predominantly defense driven Dobe in the Courage Test? Also why all the hoopla and distractions in your sport don't mean a thing to a high prey dog.|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 31 March 2011 - 21:40
|Quote: Also why all the hoopla and distractions in your sport don't mean a thing to a high prey dog.|
I guess you just don't watch the videos where the dog hesitates, or gets punked. I guess they would need some defense work to fix that. LOL
You need to stick with what you know, or get out and watch something other than stupid Sch. You are missing out on learning a lot about dogs.
by remione1 on 31 March 2011 - 22:13
|Lmfao You guys are seriously arguing with Jeff? I havent been in this very long at all but know Jeff will say anything to keep the argument going. Gotta give it up to you dude, PDB & WDF it's fun reading this stuff. Makes the day go by faster ;)|
by Jenni78 on 31 March 2011 - 22:40
|Actually, I'm not usually talking about just "prey and defense drives" when I say "balanced." I mean mentally balanced, all-around balanced, like Jeff describes his ideal. A dog who is not crazy, a dog who knows exactly who/what he's biting and why, and is clear in the head. A dog who can take as much or more than he brings and never shuts down under pressure. Most people don't put enough real pressure on their dogs before judging their character/temperament, imo. |
Reading a dog is something of an art, and I agree w/Jeff; it's a hell of a thing to try to explain to people how to do. I don't see why, however, it's perceived like it's rocket science or that you need to do some specific sport in order to know how to read a dog. I have met many oldtimers who never titled a dog who could read a dog far better than many "trainers."
One thing I will say for myself, despite the fact that I have not and probably will not ever title a dog in a sport, what people WILL say about any dog I sell them is that it's exactly what I said it was, so I can't be quite as stupid as you think. Or I just get really really lucky and awful lot! LOL And these are often people who know what they're doing, even by Jeff's standards;-)
Bob, I agree and I disagree. I know that makes no sense, but I'm female, so making sense is optional when it comes to being right. LOL
Seriously, that's a big problem, and what I mean by people misinterpreting what they see. Seeing what they want can happen. Also, simply misunderstanding what they are seeing, I think happens even more often.
My biggest problem w/selectively breeding dogs SOLELY to excel in sport is that an overabundance of prey can cover too many tempermental faults. A mediocre trainer w/a dog w/a ton of prey drive can accomplish a lot and make it look good. Then the accomplished dog, genetic temperamental faults and all, gets bred because of its titles. THIS is my only problem w/breeding solely for sport.
Now, I have a new puppy to play with, so that's all from me tonight;-)
by Chaz Reinhold on 01 April 2011 - 00:01
|Uh, Jiffy Jeff, I was actually agreeing with you. Most dobes look like s#!t because of the lack of prey. Maybe you misunderstood.|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 01 April 2011 - 00:22
|Quote: I have met many oldtimers who never titled a dog who could read a dog far better than many "trainers." |
Just because you agree with what they think, doesn't mean they are right about things.
Probably, I have been cutting brush all day.