German Shepherd Dog > Asko von der Lutter (94 replies)
by Gustav on 30 December 2010 - 13:55
|Top fifty or bottom fifty, what difference does it make...as long as particpation in BSP is the result of 1st,2nd,3rd, place in a regional event(LGA), then for a dog to even make it there shows a dog with an ability to be productive with correct training. Isn't this what the breed is about?? To be one of the top producers of dogs competing at this level, personal opinions aside, reflects a stud dog of value. How you use him and who you breed him to is your choice, but his production in the sport world is very solid based on facts. When a dog has been bred as much as Asko there will always be progeny that are unintended results, or a bad combination with the female. But logic tells me that some of the most successful and knowledgable breeders in Europe repeatedly used this dog, and the training results of his progeny is as high as any dog in past 30 years, that the dog has value except with the elite of the PDB.|
by KYLE on 30 December 2010 - 14:07
|"Is the second generation too removed from the Grand-parent to be able to say that is where the influences come from?"|
This is always interesting. Now we are dealing with 6 dogs. There is no way of conclusively saying that the dog recieved this or that from a particuilar dog. We know what traits we are aiming for and we do get that desired result or some resemblence there of. But is this not the purpose of the breed survey? This dog should be used to ex. improve structure, improve drive.
For some reason we think that we will only get the good when using a particuilar dog for stud or future line breeding. Are the chances not the same that we get what is not desirable as well?
There are a few training videos of Asko, just google him. But most are trial exercise reps not drive building or helper challenging the dog.
by darylehret on 30 December 2010 - 17:23
|Maybe that's just not his strength. Maybe he's better off for support in the pedigree's structure for some particular characteristic. I don't know what his strengths or weaknesses are, I've never paid him much mind. Probably the biggest reason being; judging from his pedigree structure, I don't think he's prepotent enough to stamp himself into his offspring. I prefer to see some linebreeding in one if not both of the parents, and in the offspring as well for future line building. A "bloodline" will only stretch so far without genetic prepotence.|
Examine the first place champion of the 2006 BSP, Caro vom Mörfelder Land. Caro is from Branko vom Salztalblick (linebred on T-litter von der bösen Nachbarschaft, and therefore Fero, a son of Rocky von den Zingelgärten), bred to a daughter of Asko. The linebred stud Branko can be expected to stamp himself doubly better than could Buffy vom Mörfelder Land, the daughter of Asko. Caro certainly resembles Branko moreso in appearance.
Caro vom Mörfelder Land (Branko/Asko)
by Gustav on 30 December 2010 - 17:42
I agree with you that Asko, for some breedings, is only going to be a strength in supporting type role. Actually, my support of Asko is based primarily on his ability to have sired many many highly trained dogs. Though I have personal preferences in the type of German Shepherd that I like, when evaluating a stud, I look to see if the dog will breed true to what it is. Asko and Aly Vordinsteinwald are dogs that are the epitome of current sport breeding. They also give decent structure and above average hips. So to me he is important stud, maybe not the dog I would use for some things, but for others certainly. JMO
by steve1 on 30 December 2010 - 18:03
|As with all species in breeding you get the good and the bad, Asko is one Dog it takes two so any faults some may think he passes on may not be directly his fault, on the other hand they may be in part.|
As far as i know he has bred some really class Dogs which have worked well in top class competitions over this side of the World.
There is no one Dog who is perfect just as there is no human who is perfect, any one purchasing a Pup or Dog does there homework first any doubts in a breeding then it should be left alone,
However for Me, i never go on heresay i want to see for myself and that does not only apply to Dogs
by ramgsd on 30 December 2010 - 19:02
|GUPPY you asked about "Dogs that were previously sound of nerve, now wash out of Schutzhund, run out of the obedience ring, have episodes of random aggression." I've never seen this and if the dogs were sound and doing well before and then start this behavior I would look more into the training and handling of the dogs. |
KYLE I'd like to see these training vids that you are talking about. As far as I know there is only one video of Asko, that everyone has seen online and that is him in trial. If yo've found others I'd aprreciate it if you would post their links. Thanks.
DARYL I think you are spot on with your beeding philosophy.
GREAT thread. One of the best I've read in a long time. Some actual thought coming out.
by KYLE on 30 December 2010 - 19:44
|I think it is on the 'MyVideo" website. I will confirm and post later.|
by Pia on 30 December 2010 - 21:07
|I have some expirience breeding on Asko von der Lutter also on line breeding I have met Asko personally . As with all stud dogs such as Fero who was also used very much not so desireable prodgeny is to be expected however looking at the statistics of Asko Lutter as a producer makes him a much desirable dog . Asko does produce biddable dogs sometimes prodgeny can be a bit soft to handler but also produces hard to the helper dogs :) |
Asko Lutter grandson out of my breeding http://vomrheinland.com/gator.html check the newest video ScHH1 :) This is also a dog that can be lived with sond temperament . another is Ukon and Cara vom Rheinland check under females also Immo ( page coming soon ) most of my Asko blood was bred over Mandy vom Barockschloessle through different males :) Immo is a direct son and one of the last Asko sons.
I speak from my expirience with Asko von der Lutter not though hear say FYI :)
by ramgsd on 30 December 2010 - 21:22
|I was wondering if you might comment on this one Pia. Unfortunately I couldn't get the video to play.|
by CrzyGSD on 30 December 2010 - 21:27
|Who is this Pia person? You don't know what you're talking.|
by ramgsd on 30 December 2010 - 21:40
|CrzyGSD. Ever looked at the names on the USA Executive board votes??? Pia is a German now in the US. Whelped one of, if not they last litter from Asko. Also been a national competitor many times. As she's stated she's got first hand knowledge of the dog as well as offspring and grand-offspring. Definately not a newbe. This is one time you should have looked into the person before you made such a statement. |
Just noticed, aren't you also in the NE region. You should know who Pia is.
By the way I do like your Canto grandson.
by sueincc on 31 December 2010 - 00:57
|I think you can pretty much bet the farm crazyGSD knows exactly who Pia is, and that his post was most likely dripping with sarcasm. Specially when you consider Karthago used Asko many times in breeding...but then what do THEY know....???!!!!!! hahahahahaha. Oh well, such is the loss and the limitation of the internet, many times the loss of flavor and tone seem to go hand in hand with the printed word on the Internet. Really makes you appreciate good journalism, the ability to impart feeling beyond just the words, no? |
Funny thing, the Internet, so many keyboard trainers, so little actual knowledge amongst especially the most abrasive. Seems to be all about covering something up, maybe it's to avoid having to actually having to back up the bullshit with goals attained? Who knows? Certainly not little old me! The goal amongst the internet trainer jockeys seems to be who can intimidate or cow the newbies the longest before even the greenest start asking the relevant questions. Becomes tiresome after a while, no?
The Internet...the last frontier....anyone can say anything.....or be anyone. My advise? Evaluate Asko progeny as you would have before this great Internet "tool" became available, be especially weary of those who work the hardest to impress you or hit you over the head with their "knowledge", take advise from those you know, rather than the Internet "tools", anything you read should be given about as much weight as what you might hear on a late night cable TV show or any other gossip monger, Perez Hilton for example. You may get some ideas you can run with with, but that's about it.
by KYLE on 31 December 2010 - 05:16
Pia FTW. She is the real deal. Pia has no problem grabbing the leash from big guys that do not know how to give a proper correction. I went to a seminar with her club and Marcus Keidel and a good time and learning experience was had by all. Do not question this ladies skills.
by Lynx on 31 December 2010 - 08:51
|//What dog in past years has reached something like that in ANY year?? //|
Troll Haus Millinda has sired 10 WUSV competitors in 2007.
Falk von der Wolfen 8 BSP competitors in 2008.
This is just some I looked for.
by Gustav on 31 December 2010 - 15:20
And I think both of those dogs are very excellent studs. While you're looking could you weigh in on total BSP progeny produced. My understanding is this dog produced high numbers of BSP progeny in many different years. Either way, when you are in company like Troll and Falk, then I think you bring something to the table. If you exceed dogs like these in overall production which shows longevity in producing, I definitely think you bring something to the table. Hey, but that's just me.
by CrzyGSD on 01 January 2011 - 18:28
|I was messin with Pia sueinc. So chill out. we are friends. Dont get so defensive over something that didnt involve you.|
by CrzyGSD on 01 January 2011 - 18:29
|Yes Ram i know her LOL|
by CrzyGSD on 01 January 2011 - 18:30
I had a Troll son. Awesome dog.
by sueincc on 01 January 2011 - 19:28
|uh Mark, Ramgsd is the one who wanted to tell you who Pia was, my point was you were joking around when you asked who Pia was. As far as being defensive, I guess we will once more have to chalk this up to the written word not conveying proper emotion because I am not being defensive in the least, but I think you should consider taking your own advise and "chill", especially since in my entire post the only thing that had anything to do with you was my first sentence. I'm pretty sure the topic of this thread is as much my business as it is yours. Have a great day.|
by CrzyGSD on 01 January 2011 - 21:04
|Sorry for misunderstanding your post. Happy New Year :)|